Willi- As we said Hwy 2K can be a positive

[Karl]

Ah Bwoy.

People a bawl fi fuss world and den a talk bout rail system being not economically feasable. ??!!!

Is non-critical thinking a requirement for being a comrade ?

Don1, Karl, Jawge.. I mean can it be just a coincidence ?

Did you see where I said I would like the rail system to be re-vitalised? ...1st world for JA shall mean that for some things - subsidies!
...e.g. (Mawnin, Sass!) Air Jamaica!

The key is working towards earning enough (making surpluses in some areas and subsidising others...but, in the big picture earning...as total... more than enough to support what we desire) to afford that 1st World living!

[Muadib]

Ah Bwoy.

People a bawl fi fuss world and den a talk bout rail system being not economically feasable. ??!!!

Is non-critical thinking a requirement for being a comrade ?

Don1, Karl, Jawge.. I mean can it be just a coincidence ?

[Karl]

I believe my statement is more than reasonable. If an investment in rail is a winner as you and others seem to believe..... with the Gov flogging it for more than a decade.... it would have had an investor....guaranteed.

The Chinese financed stadium is not analagous to the rail situation .... a fraction of the investment ($30m v $300m+) and basically a showpiece not expected to give an economic return above carrying cost.... I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese write that off in return for some other consideration.
I don't know the secret terms of the Chinese deals with the other countries... that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Face reality.... rail in Jamaica is not an economically viable proposition If it is built someone will have to subsidize it ad infinitum...... just like all those stadia. Jamaica is not strategically important enough to the Chinese for them to gift us a $300m-$500m investment.
Now if we discover oil or threaten to recognize Taiwan.... that might change.

You are correct!
...from an emotional perspective - I would like the re-introduction of the rail system.

Sure we could maximize what we can gain from freight haulage, addition to our 'transportation system' (Do we really have one?) and, tourism.

I think those who argue about a rail system being economically feasible are forgetting the size of our market relative to what it would take to sustain such a rail system...piddling!

[Don1]

Respek don.

I live in a multi-modal Tport world and know the strategic advantages of it. The French are great at it, except for 1 city...Marseilles. The only explanation for Marseilles sucking like that is POLITICS!

Tolls pay for regular maintenace. In France there is no way you will see overloaded trucks on the commercial autoroutes. The Gendarmarie will immediately interdict! Booguyaggah will soon find out how we a anancyish and will try to take advantage ...then the repair bills will hit and they will go bawling to the Govt to assist in policing.

Finally, it is the CHINESE who will insist on the multi-modal transp. network. It will primarily aid THEIR business. We just have to be clever negotiators.

What U doing up so late?

gone mi gone now boss. Lata.

[Willi]

I think the tolls will pay for the highway upkeep.... after all that is the whole premise behind toll roads.

I agree with you that Jamaica is important to the Chinese (I attended some of the public meetings of the VP in 2004)... Just not currently important enough to gift us US$300m. I had expected to see more developments from that visit at this point but hopefully we'll see something soon.

We can agree to disagree on this matter .... I see your points and would love to see integrated multi modal transport systems in Jamaica as much as you obviously do.

Let's hope it gets done ..... especially if it's not on the taxpayers dime.

Respek

Respek don.

I live in a multi-modal Tport world and know the strategic advantages of it. The French are great at it, except for 1 city...Marseilles. The only explanation for Marseilles sucking like that is POLITICS!

Tolls pay for regular maintenace. In France there is no way you will see overloaded trucks on the commercial autoroutes. The Gendarmarie will immediately interdict! Booguyaggah will soon find out how we a anancyish and will try to take advantage ...then the repair bills will hit and they will go bawling to the Govt to assist in policing.

Finally, it is the CHINESE who will insist on the multi-modal transp. network. It will primarily aid THEIR business. We just have to be clever negotiators.

What U doing up so late?

[Don1]

D.

If Jam is "not strategic enuff" to the Chinese, then why did we get a 2-day sate visit from the Deputy Premier??? Yuh think them have time to waste. Jamaica is the leader in the anglo-Caribbean with lots of UN votes for the popn sizes. Jamaica is the most strategically placed shipping destination for the Western Hemisphere save maybe for Panama. All the safe sea routes going north pass by Jamaica.

I repeat, if we are serious about growth and volumes expand as I think they will in the next 5 to 10 years, even the Bogguyagga highway will quickly be overextended. Again I ask, who is going to pay for maintenance of the highway when overladen tucks destroy the surface? A road engineer once explained to me that asphalt is an elastic substance and that each time a load passes, it bends and snaps back into place. If the load is too heavy or the bending takes place too often, the elasticity breaks down and you get damage.

Now with volumes on trucks, either B. will be changing a huge premium for tracks to use the network or they will get Govt to re-institute weighing stations and drop big fines...prohibative fines. The French wont want those asphalt shredders on their investment, so either way story will come to bump!!!

Imagine a Jamaica that is in full investment boom and we dont have the means to do huge cargo hauls internally to and from Air and sea ports, as well as to distribute goods internally?

I think the tolls will pay for the highway upkeep.... after all that is the whole premise behind toll roads.

I agree with you that Jamaica is important to the Chinese (I attended some of the public meetings of the VP in 2004)... Just not currently important enough to gift us US$300m. I had expected to see more developments from that visit at this point but hopefully we'll see something soon.

We can agree to disagree on this matter .... I see your points and would love to see integrated multi modal transport systems in Jamaica as much as you obviously do.

Let's hope it gets done ..... especially if it's not on the taxpayers dime.

Respek

[Willi]

I believe my statement is more than reasonable. If an investment in rail is a winner as you and others seem to believe..... with the Gov flogging it for more than a decade.... it would have had an investor....guaranteed.

The Chinese financed stadium is not analagous to the rail situation .... a fraction of the investment ($30m v $300m+) and basically a showpiece not expected to give an economic return above carrying cost.... I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese write that off in return for some other consideration.
I don't know the secret terms of the Chinese deals with the other countries... that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Face reality.... rail in Jamaica is not an economically viable proposition If it is built someone will have to subsidize it ad infinitum...... just like all those stadia. Jamaica is not strategically important enough to the Chinese for them to gift us a $300m-$500m investment.
Now if we discover oil or threaten to recognize Taiwan.... that might change.

D.

If Jam is "not strategic enuff" to the Chinese, then why did we get a 2-day sate visit from the Deputy Premier??? Yuh think them have time to waste. Jamaica is the leader in the anglo-Caribbean with lots of UN votes for the popn sizes. Jamaica is the most strategically placed shipping destination for the Western Hemisphere save maybe for Panama. All the safe sea routes going north pass by Jamaica.

I repeat, if we are serious about growth and volumes expand as I think they will in the next 5 to 10 years, even the Bogguyagga highway will quickly be overextended. Again I ask, who is going to pay for maintenance of the highway when overladen tucks destroy the surface? A road engineer once explained to me that asphalt is an elastic substance and that each time a load passes, it bends and snaps back into place. If the load is too heavy or the bending takes place too often, the elasticity breaks down and you get damage.

Now with volumes on trucks, either B. will be changing a huge premium for tracks to use the network or they will get Govt to re-institute weighing stations and drop big fines...prohibative fines. The French wont want those asphalt shredders on their investment, so either way story will come to bump!!!

Imagine a Jamaica that is in full investment boom and we dont have the means to do huge cargo hauls internally to and from Air and sea ports, as well as to distribute goods internally?

[Assasin]

statement of the day

"Who is it here that sez, you dont get what you deserve...you get what U negotiate???"

[Muadib]

Mi waan feel seh Don1 is a shareholder in Booyah.. or whatever dat French company name..

Heh,heh.

What a load of crap.

[Don1]

Don1, this is a foolish statement.

Tell me, why is Jamaica the only Carib. receipient f a Chinese Stadium that didnt get it for free?? Dont too argue with me on this. i wont dop names but a Jamaican bigwig rhetorically asked this question tonite!

Politics and personnel make a great difference.

Who is it here that sez, you dont get what you deserve...you get what U negotiate???

I believe my statement is more than reasonable. If an investment in rail is a winner as you and others seem to believe..... with the Gov flogging it for more than a decade.... it would have had an investor....guaranteed.

The Chinese financed stadium is not analagous to the rail situation .... a fraction of the investment ($30m v $300m+) and basically a showpiece not expected to give an economic return above carrying cost.... I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese write that off in return for some other consideration.
I don't know the secret terms of the Chinese deals with the other countries... that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Face reality.... rail in Jamaica is not an economically viable proposition If it is built someone will have to subsidize it ad infinitum...... just like all those stadia. Jamaica is not strategically important enough to the Chinese for them to gift us a $300m-$500m investment.
Now if we discover oil or threaten to recognize Taiwan.... that might change.

[Willi]

I can respect your experience whatever it may be in this area but MONEY talks.
Please explain why if it is such a good idea (and presumably "good" includes economic viability) investors have not rushed at the opportunity to get in the sector and make money? What do you know that they don't?

Don1, this is a foolish statement.

Tell me, why is Jamaica the only Carib. receipient f a Chinese Stadium that didnt get it for free?? Dont too argue with me on this. i wont dop names but a Jamaican bigwig rhetorically asked this question tonite!

Politics and personnel make a great difference.

Who is it here that sez, you dont get what you deserve...you get what U negotiate???

[Willi]

I would love to know even 1 country with Jamaica's metrics - tiny size, small population, low economic activity and VERY dense road network.. utilizes heavy rail extensively.

Jamaica has been trying to divest the rail network for over a decade - there is a reason investors won't touch it - they'll lose their shirts, pants and shoes.
Jamaica is just not a great candidate for rail...too small, too poor, too mountainous, too many roads to use as an alternative.

If this was not the case the system would have been privatized years ago.

U wrong there.

It should have been privatized way back in 1991. Investors were lined up and ting. Elements in the then Govt stopped it.

It pays to know people in low places. LoL

[Exile]

True on the TT fast rail system. Present Govt. wants it, contenders say NO - only a system to fatten the coffers...personal ones that is.
Without a transportation POLICY, I can't see how there is any development. We bring in thousands of Japanese used-cars, pack the roads and then say we need mass transport.
In Ja. every druggist owns about 4 HUGE trucks, not suited for the mountainous roads (Mt. Diablo), so you can imagine how many in Ja. now....our Govs.(Caribbean) just seem to have no plan...just these knee-jerk reactions to please, appease and tease.

[Muadib]

Do you know what a concession is ?

[Don1]

Ok. so you do not have first ahnd knowledge about ja's situation. You are quoting generalities from a report. I know for a fact, from my experience, that freight rail is a good idea for Jamaica.

I can respect your experience whatever it may be in this area but MONEY talks.
Please explain why if it is such a good idea (and presumably "good" includes economic viability) investors have not rushed at the opportunity to get in the sector and make money? What do you know that they don't?