Darren Sammy retires

[Stonigut]

Islandman, what you talking bout bredrin; "we no longer produce cricketers in the Caribbean suitable for test cricket, in fact we never really did" what you call Haynes, Gomes, Dujon three solid batsmen who could hold a crease and were not heavy professional county players when they came to the fore, those three were mainstays of the side between 81 to 87 and they were not even the best players or close to it, we cannot find a Haynes, Gomes or Dujon anywhere in the West Indies now as the leadership has been so poor, without good leadership maybe none of those three could find the light of day, we had solid play to build things so two plus two equal 5 or six, so richards, greenidge, Lloyd, Richardson all players that could actually concentrate and play for hours, what you mean we never produced them, what you call those guys.

[Islandman]

Stonigut, if you have a strong cohort of professional world class players, as WI did in the 70s and 80s due mainly to county cricket, it is not difficult for others to develop under their wings. The problem starts when that cohort starts disappearing.

It has been VERY obvious that our pool of world class Test/first class cricketers dwindled and dwindled as the impact of the change in County Cricket rules took effect. In fact I thought everybody who has followed WI cricket seriously knew this. There were then and will continue to be a few exceptional players who will become world class without a need for that grounding, but we do not have a POOL of decent first class cricketers. The standard of our first class regional competition is probably the worst it has ever been.

In the glory days of WI cricket you had the 4 or 5 world class bowlers in the squad, then you had another 2 or 3 just a step below who were actively playing county cricket who could step in at any time. The batting lineup was not too different. These players learnt from other world class players, not just West Indian. They shared stories and experimented with new ideas together.

Now what we have more often than not are players who play very little first class cricket making the WI Test team, and then having no mentors to guide them through the transition. The talent as always is there but they are injury prone, inconsistent, and generally not conditioned to play Test cricket.

The idea that this skipper or any previous skipper can solve the problem is extremely short sighted. The problem is the SYSTEM or lack of one. The WICB was as disorganized and myopic back then as they are now, what has changed is that 1) WI now have nobody else to mold our young first class cricketers anymore and 2) Players know that T20 is a much more lucrative option for them. Hence, Gayle could tell the WICB to screw themselves and then go off making millions in T20. A 1970s or 80s cricketer had no such option.

Anyway, let us watch the WI test team under the new captain and check back in a year. I predict that if there are any improvements, it will be marginal as NO captain, living or dead, can fix the problems that WI cricket has.

I will leave you with a quote from the GOAT of WI batting (in my view) Brian Charles Lara in 2010:

I believe that we still have some of the best youngsters in the world..... What I am worried about is those three-four years from teenage life to early twenties. What happens?.....There's got to be a supporting team behind them to make sure that they elevate themselves very quickly to that level. Australians have it. I see ordinary Australians get on the scene and in three or four years they are top-class players. I am not calling any names, but they are top-class players. I see in the West Indies really special young players get out there and struggle, can't find their way. Something must be wrong with our system.

[Dunny]

Islandman, is it true that Jerome Taylor is on the verge of being recalled to the Windies set up?

[Islandman]

Well it sounds like he has just about regained fitness so one would hope that he is being considered. He certainly deserves another chance.

He is a perfect example of the kind of player I was referring to in my posts above. Very talented, could have been among the best of his era.

Something is very wrong with the conditioning of our fast bowlers, they are all injury prone these days. They are not prepared for the demands of Test cricket. T20 with its 4 overs a day suits them perfectly.

[Stonigut]

Ok that is interesting information but at the end of the day there must be fundamental accountability to self, to team and to West Indies what we have seen is a string of captains and on field leaders that do not command or demand respect in the way we saw with say Clive Lloyd. Maybe the emergence of Lloyd is a once in a hundred years event for the West Indies but there must be someone out there who can inculcate the fundamentals of playing hard, working hard, setting goals, going the distance and just being fundamentally accountable for performance. We see the same thing in terms of lack of leadership throughout jamaican political and economic life to the point where it seems the only serious leader we have developed in the last eighty years was Norman Manley.

Anyway here is an excerpt from Countycricket magazine on Lloyd. I realize we cannot convince each other but I hope you see that there is a need for leadership that starts the ball rolling in every endeavor and without it there is nothing. I actually have little faith in Ramdin as the little I have heard was controversial and if true not leadership potential, but I also know Sammy was not the guy either not with the kind of performances I have seen since he has come to the fore except of course for the buckup T20 win, yes I celebrated that win.

The recognition from his own cricket board had been slow in coming. Lloyd had fought tooth and nail for his team of cricketers to be treated with respect, to be paid in accordance to what their enormous talents merited.The confrontations had often been bitter, never more so than during the Kerry Packer series. Following the curious decision of the Board to drop three young cricketers, including Desmond Haynes, and to take away the vice-captaincy from Deryck Murray, Lloyd had resigned his captaincy. It had led a boycott that saw a second string side play against the final Tests against the visiting Australians of 1978 and then travel to India in 1978-79.
However, now, as his towering, slouching, gigantic frame made his way for the 100th Test match, the president of the Board, Allan Rae, made a warm speech and felicitated the great man. Speaking for the players was one of Lloyd’s most potent weapons, ‘Big Bird’ Joel Garner: “Clive Lloyd is like a father, big brother, guardian and guide to West Indian cricketers. We respect him because he respects himself and all of us. If [Frank] Worrell led by inspiration and [Garry] Sobers by example, Lloyd combines both to great effect.”

Wes Hall, the former fast bowler and one of the teammates when a young Lloyd made his Test debut, opined, “He is admired by cricketers and chroniclers the world over, and he has dominated the panorama of international cricket for a decade like a colossus.”

The accolades were not restricted to the cricketing world. Writing in a Jamaican Sunday paper, Michael Manley, the country’s former Prime Minister, observed: “In Clive Lloyd, the captaincy found its figure of continuity. A great enough player to command unquestioning respect, Lloyd grew in stature, maturity and cricket judgement as the years passed. His reign is like that of some great monarch of the Renaissance. The manner with his team is avuncular rather than authoritarian. He sets the example in personal discipline, in personal integrity, in personal performance, in personal dignity and in personal courtesy.”

It described the man to perfection.

[Islandman]

Stoni I don't think we are as far apart in our views on this as I originally thought.

Clive Lloyd was indeed a special leader who came around at the right time to change WI cricket . Remember though he had played many years professionally at Lancashire before he became captain of the WI team. He would have been captain of Lancashire much earlier than he did were it not for racism. I am pretty sure that Clive Lloyd played more cricket in England than he played in the WI. I also have no doubt that he took a lot of that experience into the job of transforming the talented but inconsistent WI players into a professional, world beating juggernaut.

I really don't think there is anything magical about English county cricket , but it was a way for our better first class cricketers to keep sharp and earn a moderate living while waiting for a call-up to the WI test team. That no longer exists and I think we all underestimated the difference that it made because we were so good back then.

I agree with you that T20 requires less concentration and technique to be successful, but I also think that a big part of why the WI are competitive in that format is that our players are playing a whole lot of it at the highest level, for both country and club. I expect that to continue for the foreseeable future.

I wish Ramdin all the best but.....there are limits to what he can do with the material he has to work with.