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  • #1

    Spain outplayed Germany!

    Deserve to win!
    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
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  • #2
    They've done it!
    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

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    • #3
      I guess Spain played more TEAM?


      BLACK LIVES MATTER

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      • #4
        Senna flies flag of convenience for the boys from Brazil

        </EM>
        Midfielder who has found passport to success with Spain would struggle to play for native country. Glenn Moore reports on globalisation's team tactics
        Saturday, 28 June 2008
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        Xabi Alonso is one of the finest passers in the game, which is why Juventus covet his signature and Liverpool will only let him go at a premium price. The midfielder will not, however, be in the Spanish XI for tomorrow's Euro 2008 final in Vienna. "We are very strong in midfield," he said, ruefully, when asked about his omission. Being a polite man and a good squad member, he did not add that were only Spaniards selected for the team, he would be in it.

        For the man keeping Alonso out of Luis Aragones' side is Brazilian. Marcos Antonio Senna da Silva, aka Marcos Senna, took Spanish citizenship shortly before the 2006 World Cup but, apart from working in Spain, has no connection with the country. Initially there was some disquiet but Senna's genial personality and commanding performances have dispelled any criticism. In the recent Euro 2008 quarter-final he prevented Italy getting any meaningful service to Luca Toni, then dispatched a penalty in the shoot-out. In the semi-final he suffocated Andrei Arshavin, the gifted playmaker who was supposed to lead Russia to the final.
        None of this will have surprised anyone who has watched Senna playing for Villarreal, the upstarts from the Valencian hinterland who have become a force in La Liga and beyond. After playing for several Brazilian clubs Senna moved to Spain six years ago. He was already 26. In Brazil he progressed to Corinthians, one of the marquee clubs, but made less than 20 appearances. He returned to prominence in the unpromising surroundings of Sao Caetano, a previously unheralded club based in the suburbs of Sao Paulo who unexpectedly reached the final of the Copa Libertadores, South America's equivalent to the Champions League, in 2002.
        That led to a transfer to Villarreal, who were about to embark on a fourth season in the top flight. Senna took time to settle and was a peripheral figure when Villarreal reached the semi-finals of the Uefa Cup in his second season. He was a much more significant figure when, two years later, the "Yellow Submarine" reached the last four of the Champions League, where they lost to Arsenal. Senna's passing, disciplined positioning, tackling and long-range shooting had by now come to the attention of Aragones, Spain's controversial, irascible, but shrewd manager. Senna took Spanish nationality, enabling his club to field another non-EU player. Capped in March 2006, he was a starter in the ensuing World Cup.
        "Not everyone was in favour at first but there was no real outcry," said Graham Hunter, a Barcelona-based journalist. "In taking Spanish nationality Senna is part of a tradition that goes back through another Brazilian, Donato, to Alfredo di Stefano [who played for Argentina before playing for Spain]."
        Senna made an impression in Germany and was linked with a move to Manchester United. He remained in Spain, but dropped out of the national team. He was recalled when David Albelda, who had been filling the holding role, became a victim of the infighting at Valencia last season. Senna seized his opportunity, so much so that Alonso's recent man-of-the-match performance against Greece in Euro 2008 was never going to be enough to win a recall to the first-choice side.
        It may be slightly embarrassing that the key player in the European Championship is South American but as Josef Hickersberger, the Austrian coach, said after Poland's Brazilian, Roger Guerreiro, had scored against his men: "All teams are trying to bring in players and to naturalise players in order to strengthen their own national teams. It is legitimate. These are possibilities which are open to every team according to the statutes."
        Hickersberger also mentioned Eduardo, the Arsenal striker who would have led Croatia's attack but for injury. He could have mentioned Senna; Turkey's Mehmet (Marco) Aurelio; Portugal's Pepe and Deco, who, like their coach, Luiz Felipe Scolari, were born and bred in Brazil; or Germany's Kevin Kuranyi – who at least does have a half-German father.
        That Kuranyi could instead have played for Hungary (his father's other antecedent), Panama (his mother's nationality) or Brazil (he was born in Rio de Janeiro) suggests Fifa's rules are flexible enough. Jack Charlton's Republic of Ireland reached a succession of tournaments in part because of keen exploitation of the "granny rule".
        Recently, however, there has been a new development, one which owes something to globalisation and much to expediency. Coaches and governments have realised that while countries are not allowed to use the transfer market to strengthen teams, they can use helpful immigration laws.
        Since Brazil is the greatest producer of football talent in the world it follows that footballers most likely to be naturalised are from Brazil. Those playing at Euro 2008 are just the most visible tip of a ball-juggling mountain. There are Brazilians playing for Bosnia, Bulgaria and Hungary. Azerbaijan have four Brazilians playing for them – the recent spell as coach of Brazil's 1970 World Cup captain, Carlos Alberto Torres, is undoubtedly a factor. Brazilians have been competing for Tunisia and Lebanon and for Japan and Qatar.
        What these players offer was encapsulated by Leo Beenhakker, Poland's coach, who pushed for Guerreiro's naturalisation in time for this tournament. "He is great," the Dutchman said. "He's amazing, he's fantastic. He sees solutions and makes choices on the field that are, well, it's Brazilian. I cannot explain it in any other way."
        Guerreiro's Polishness only goes so far. When he collected a man-of-the-match award after scoring against Austria, the honours were done in Spanish – no Portuguese speakers were available. Roger – as he is known locally – is unlikely to have learnt much Polish since 2006, when he left his native country to sign for Legia Warsaw.
        Now he is, in Fabio Capello's phrase, Poland's "fantasy" player; then he was, said Tim Vickery, a Rio-based football analyst, "a nondescript left-back". Vickery, who watched Guerreiro playing for Flamengo and Corinthians, added: "Now he is an attacking midfielder full of ideas and confidence. He did none of that here but if a Brazilian who moves to Europe can cope with the cultural change they get far more respect, because they have that natural ability, than they did at home. Some shine with that confidence."
        That appears to have been the case with Deco, whose adoption of Portuguese nationality met with considerable opposition in Portugal at the time, and Senna. While not fitting the archetypal ball-juggling image of a Brazilian, Senna's easy command of the ball, confidence in possession and explosive shooting mark him out as a product of the joga bonito.
        Senna's progress has not gone unnoticed. "The Brazilians are very proud of the contribution their own players make," said Vickery. "The Euro 2008 matches are on here and they are being watched. Brazil have so many players there is no sense of treachery, there is pride that so many have key roles in other teams. Who of them would have got in the Brazilian team? Maybe Deco – but his profile has risen since he began playing for Portugal."
        With globalisation the blurring of national allegiances is only going to increase, especially given the value of an EU passport to players from outside the union. Had the Dutch government been more amenable Chelsea's Salomon Kalou, for example, then playing at Feyenoord, would have played for the Netherlands against an Ivory Coast team which featured his elder brother, Bonaventure, at the last World Cup. Senna is cousin to Marcos Assuncao, a former Brazilian international.
        They will never play against each other at international level because Assuncao, who played for Santos and Roma, won 11 caps for Brazil between the 1998 and 2002 World Cups before being dropped after one poor game. Such is the depth of talent, he was never recalled. That is why Senna, who has lost and regained his place with Spain, and now stands on the cusp of winning the most precious medal outside the World Cup, will feel tonight that he has made the right choice of passport.
        THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE!

        "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


        "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

        Comment

        • #5

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          var articleheadline = "The 10 most sought-after Euro 2008 players";The 10 most sought-after Euro 2008 players

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          Goals and glory for some, misses and misery for others. Club managers have been watching, says Jason Burt, but have they seen enough to splash out?
          Saturday, 28 June 2008

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          Andrei Arshavin is the hottest new property in European football after his Euro 2008 displays for Russia
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          The football may not have been cautious at Euro 2008 – but the transfer market has been. Arsène Wenger's famous maxim – never buy a player based on his performances in a tournament – appears to have caught on, even if the Arsenal manager himself declared, somewhat mischievously, that he had arrived in Switzerland not just to commentate for French television but armed with his chequebook. And not just because the cost of living is so high in the cantons.

          In truth, Wenger's targets were already set. He didn't learn any more about Samir Nasri because of France's appalling showing and it certainly hasn't put him off pushing through a £13.5m deal for the 20-year-old winger. And, similarly, if he reignites his interest in Lyons' Karim Benzema then it won't be because of how he performed for Les Bleus.
          Wenger knows the dangers though. He was asked his opinion, as part of his role as a TV summariser, on Turkey's Arda Turan and spoke admiringly about the winger – then suddenly Arsenal are linked with a move for Arda with his club, Galatasaray, quoting a £10m transfer fee. Indeed, the Italian agent Claudio Pasqualin identified Arda – along with Andrei Arshavin – as the player who had increased his transfer value the most this past month.
          Another telling comment by Wenger in the past week was when he said that the difference between a World Cup and a European Championship in terms of scouting players is that in the latter virtually all the performers are well-known to managers. In a World Cup players can emerge, primarily from the African nations, although that is happening less and less also. In this competition the exception has been the Russians – partly because only one of them, the Nuremberg striker Ivan Saenko, plays outside their own country.
          Their reputations have grown and, as the agent Alexei Safonov has pointed out, so has the cost of buying and employing them. Also this summer, with Jose Mourinho arriving at Internazionale and Pep Guardiola taking over at Barcelona, along with Real Madrid's continuing ambition, the Premier League clubs are facing stiffer competition, again, from the rest of Europe.
          The Portsmouth manager, Harry Redknapp, is one of those who agrees with Wenger's maxim (although Arsenal did break it themselves in 2002 in buying Gilberto Silva after Brazil won the World Cup). "I've been watching the European Championship, but I don't know if I will be going for players out there," Redknapp admitted.
          He said that the stagnant transfer market was partly due to the Euros taking place. "There may not have been a lot of movement for players so far because of the competition," Redknapp explained. "But I don't know how many players there are out there who we could go for, who would make a difference.
          "It's difficult when it comes around to a tournament and you are looking to bring in people. You turn up and see a player play brilliantly in one game. Just because he does enough in one game doesn't mean he's the right player. Someone may have a brilliant European Championship, but that doesn't mean he will be right for the Premier League.
          "We've seen it happen so many times before. Someone plays well in the competition and lots of people are interested in him. His value goes through the roof and he ends up going for a lot of money, but doesn't do anything again," Redknapp explained. The name of Karel Poborsky springs to mind.
          It doesn't stop managers from watching. Maybe they are also looking for tactical innovations but the busman's holidays – sometimes, such as in the case of Martin O'Neill, combined with media work, or with Roy Hodgson in his capacity as a Uefa technical director – have been taking place. It's even more vital for those stepping into the Premier League, such as West Bromwich's Tony Mowbray, who has spent a lot of time in Switzerland and Austria over the past three weeks. "The trick is to try and identify them before the tournaments and get them signed before they hit the rest of the world," he said.
          Some reputations have soared – such as Switzerland's midfielder Gokhan Inler, many of those in the Turkish squad and the Russians – some have been restored, such as Portugal's Deco, while some, such as Germany's Mario Gomez have seen theirs slump. The Stuttgart striker will hope that managers follow Wenger's maxim. And don't make their decisions whether to buy or sell based on how he has performed this month – even if, tomorrow evening, Gomez may end up with a winner's medal.
          Most Wanted Who's in demand – and where they could end up
          1 Andrei Arshavin (Russia) Striker, 27
          Background: Barcelona have now made their move for the Zenit St Petersburg playmaker, who has been one of the stars of the tournament, even if his burgeoning reputation took a dip in the semi-final defeat to Spain. Fantastic dribbling ability, combined with an eye for a pass, both short- and long-range, and a knack for scoring goals make for a rare talent. And he's quick. Only question mark is over his temperament.
          Price £20m – which has gone up in last few weeks.
          Suitors Barcelona, Arsenal always linked but Arsène Wenger may deem him too old, plus Manchester City, Everton and Newcastle United.
          Prediction He'll join Barcelona unless they get cold feet.
          2 David Villa (Spain) Striker, 26
          Background: His hat-trick in Spain's opening game made everyone sit up and take notice but Villa's reputation is well established. Valencia will sell, but only at the right price. He has all the attributes needed for a top striker, although his lack of height and physical presence may concern some.
          Price £20m.
          Suitors Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool.
          Prediction He'll stay in Spain. Either join Barça or Real Madrid or, less likely, remain with Valencia.
          3 Arda Turan (Turkey) Left-winger, 21
          Background: Galatasaray have dismissed claims that the new golden boy of Turkish football is for sale – at the same time placing a price on his head. The player's agent has said that he is keen to go and would prefer a move to Italy.
          Price £10m.
          Suitors Newcastle United, Juventus, Milan, Arsenal.
          Prediction Newcastle appear to be in the lead but may get gazumped as bigger clubs are now circling.
          4 Roman Pavlyuchenko (Russia) Striker, 26
          Background: Spartak Moscow have said he is not for sale – but their resolve should be tested. Been top scorer in Russia for past two seasons and has struck vital goals in this competition – as well as the two that beat England in qualifying last year. His tireless work rate and bravery caught Wenger's eye.
          Price £8m.
          Suitors Celtic, Manchester City, Barcelona, Seville, Arsenal.
          Prediction Barça could take him – may make sense if they want to help Arshavin settle.
          5 Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Netherlands) Striker, 24
          Background: Ruud van Nistelrooy's understudy at the Euros but has scored 87 goals in 97 league starts for Ajax in last three seasons and many feel it's time for him to move on, although Marco van Basten's imminent arrival at the Dutch club may change that. Believed to have set his heart on joining Manchester United.
          Price £25m.
          Suitors Internazionale, Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Roma.
          Prediction Has already rejected a move to Inter. Appears set for the Premier League, if he leaves Ajax but it may not be United.
          6 Karim Benzema (France) Striker, 20
          Background: His club form has been astonishing; his international form a disappointment. Although he signed a new contract with Lyons in the spring, and appears set to stay for another year, especially as the French club have sold Hatem Ben Arfa, a huge offer could sway things. Another powerful, quick striker with an eye for goal and a powerful shot, he would certainly prosper in the Premier League.
          Price £30m.
          Suitors Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Milan.
          Prediction Price is too high and may have to stay where he is for another year. But United may go for it.
          7 Miguel Veloso (Portugal) Midfielder, 22
          Background: Has declared he wants to leave Sporting Lisbon and, although he had a disappointing Euro 2008, and there is a high buyout clause in his contract, he should be granted his wish.
          Price £20m.
          Suitors Milan, Arsenal, Juventus, Manchester United.
          Prediction Will leave – probably for Italy.
          8 Yuri Zhirkov (Russia) Left-back, 24
          Background: Or is he a winger? Hard to tell with his bombing runs forward, willingness to attack and high energy. Always the caveat that it's hard to know how a Russian player will perform in another country, and is highly paid at his present club, CSKA Moscow.
          Price £12m.
          Suitors Roma, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Newcastle United, Bayern Munich, Celtic.
          Prediction If one of the big clubs – especially Chelsea really do come calling – it will be hard for him to resist.
          9 Ivan Rakitic (Croatia) Winger, 20
          Background: Quick, tricky winger who plays for Schalke in the Bundesliga. Has said he will honour his contract, which runs until 2011, but is attracting interest across Europe after his confident displays, especially against Germany. Can play on either flank but mainly on the left.
          Price £10m.
          Suitors Juventus, Internazionale, Chelsea.
          Prediction Would be hard to resist a move – with Juve the most likely destination.
          10 Valon Behrami, (Switzerland) Right-sided midfield, 22
          Background: Unhappy at Lazio and desperate to leave – he's even talked about exploiting the so-called Webster Clause – he's a talented player who still performed well, along with Gokhan Inler, despite Switzerland's disappointing campaign.
          Price £5m.
          Suitors Tottenham Hotspur, Manchester City, Seville, Sunderland, Liverpool.
          Prediction Will come to Premier League.
          Interesting? Click here to explore further
          THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE!

          "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


          "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by X View Post
            They will never play against each other at international level because Assuncao, who played for Santos and Roma, won 11 caps for Brazil between the 1998 and 2002 World Cups before being dropped after one poor game. Such is the depth of talent, he was never recalled. That is why Senna, who has lost and regained his place with Spain, and now stands on the cusp of winning the most precious medal outside the World Cup, will feel tonight that he has made the right choice of passport.
            First time I saw Senna I thought it was Assuncao and was wondering how he ended up at that club. Assuncao was a hell of a free kick taker along with Marcelino Carioca.

            Senna (and Xavi) was the key in the final. He was in the right place at the right time.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
              I guess Spain played more TEAM?
              I would say YES!
              Besides the coordinated passing linkages where in a sense both TEAMs would have been on the same level...up until the 60+ minute Germany had more possession - never checked after that...Spain out-thought Germany and got Germany to play at a pace most suitable to Spain.

              Germany was a lucky TEAM. It could have been...and would have been fair...just reward for the Spanards...3 or more goals!
              "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

              Comment

              • #8
                Spain has a number of quality players. Where do I start.

                Fernando Torres
                Xabi Alonso
                Iniesta
                M. Senna
                Cesc Fabregas ( one of the best midfielders in the world..imho)
                David Villa
                D. Silva
                Iker Casillas


                Many of these players play with big clubs at the highest level but more importantly they're all very young. They went unbeaten in their Euro qualification campaign, then at Euro 2008..they won their group easily and have not lost a game. They're unbeaten in 22 games. Very impressive especially against such quality opposition.

                Fernando Torres is a very good player with an exceptional work rate. He does the little extra things when he doesnt have the ball that puts opposing defenders and their goalkeeper under pressure.

                Comment

                • #9
                  was this the same Spain who draw with the US right before the tournament?
                  • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Assasin View Post
                    was this the same Spain who draw with the US right before the tournament?

                    Maybe you were watching another game. The Spain I saw beat the USA 1-0

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      ...TEAM Spain with the coordinated passing linkages was quick/fast/rapid...across ground Karl.

                      TEAM Spain is on TOP OF THE WORLD!!
                      The only time TRUTH will hurt you...is if you ignore it long enough

                      HL

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HL View Post
                        ...TEAM Spain with the coordinated passing linkages was quick/fast/rapid...across ground Karl.

                        TEAM Spain is on TOP OF THE WORLD!!
                        Definitely in that TOP OF THE WORLD class!
                        "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

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