So, is Rio going to be "charged" too?

[Paul Marin]

not really, and this is the ticklish point. it is hard to conceive of someone being a racist towards a person of the same race. that may take on the appearance of an ethos which is more social in nature.

if two black rappers go at each other calling other the n word, is that racist i do not think so. but if one rapper is black and the other is not, then it takes on a completely different tone.

racism has its genesis in one race belittling the other trying to establish a superior/inferior relationship ... that does not translate well intra-race...

Gamma - SURPRISE!!! I disagree. Zeppo and Sass are right to my way of thinking. You get into a slippery slope if you don't ban the words across the board as race alone is not determining factor for racist language. For example, I have heard black people in Jamaica call other black people "Ol' Neaga" which is just as offensive as if a white or Chinese person said it. The words themselves need to be banned, regardless of the user. That's the only way it can be dealt with...at least in football.

[Gamma]

whew ... order has been restored. no slippery slope. it is quite clear. it is inappropriate across racial line ... killing someone is murder except ... and you can name the exceptions .. self defence, war, capital punishment etc.

[Paul Marin]

whew ... order has been restored. no slippery slope. it is quite clear. it is inappropriate across racial line ... killing someone is murder except ... and you can name the exceptions .. self defence, war, capital punishment etc.

Unlike murder, which you can't do with your words (except if you name Jangle) there should be no exceptions. Zero tolerance. I can't think of one exception that would be acceptable even if it is two blacks, whites or chinese joking about themselves. Otherwise, you'll have eediats like Rio claiming that "choc ice" was meant as a word for "fake". Rio's stupidity incidentally, is beyond fathomable. I can't even begin to imagine what Slurgie is doing to him now in training camp. Dyam fool. And yes...order is a good thing!!!

[Gamma]

i can agree with you on Rio ...... oh? murder cannot be done with words? suh if mi put out a hit on someone and someone else pulls the trigger, what mi charged with?

[Paul Marin]

i can agree with you on Rio ...... oh? murder cannot be done with words? suh if mi put out a hit on someone and someone else pulls the trigger, what mi charged with?

Believe me...there are times on this board where you KILL me with your words...yeesh...

The example you used is indirect. The law is clear on that in most countries. It does not absolve the person pulling the trigger of murder, both would be guilty.

The corollary in our football instance would be one player saying "go on--call him the "word"....don't be backing out now" inciting another player to call another player by an offensive word and going afoul of the rules. In that case, both would be guilty. However, I don't know what the FA rules say about incitement but to my way of thinking - both should be guilty.

[Gamma]

that was my point pablo, the words alone will allow him to be charged with murder even though he did not pull the trigger.

my larger point was however, remains, there are exceptions to murder and words in some cases are not merely wind, however in the context of who can racially abuse who, it is relevant.

[Paul Marin]

that was my point pablo, the words alone will allow him to be charged with murder even though he did not pull the trigger.

So we agree both would be guilty in a zero tolerance football context? (i.e. the person who incites is just as guilty as the one who uses the words).

my larger point was however, remains, there are exceptions to murder and words in some cases are not merely wind, however in the context of who can racially abuse who, it is relevant.

This is where we are disconnected. It is a slippery slope to suggest that two people of the same race can't racially abuse each other first and foremost, because it is simply not true. I am suggesting that racial abuse can't happen if racially abusive words are banned for everyone. And what of mixed race people? It doesn't work if you have exceptions.

[myYout]

one whom defends or pale ovah dem own even when di truut a stare dem in di face. ah nevah seen pale defen a black yet odah dan its dem lawyer.

[Paul Marin]

one whom defends or pale ovah dem own even when di truut a stare dem in di face. ah nevah seen pale defen a black yet odah dan its dem lawyer.

If this is true about your experience, then you need more exposure. Do you think Obama would have been president if a whole heap of white people didn't vote for him?

[Gamma]

murder has exceptions and that is far worse ....

[Paul Marin]

murder has exceptions and that is far worse ....

What I am suggesting is PURELY an objective standard - "either you said a banned term or you did not". I am dismissing altogether any subjective standard. Murder has a subjective standard (hence exceptions) indeed because it is far more serious.

[Peter R]

...and how do you decide what "truth" is? Cole was testifying to say JT was not racist... even though he uttered a racist epithet.

it is said that "perception is greater than reality"

...and regarding whites defending a black cause, e.g the civil rights movement, there is more than ample evidence of whites who died for the cause. I'm surprised you are unaware...

I just did a quick search and here is what I saw on one site:
http://www.splcenter.org/civil-right...rights-martyrs

[myYout]

Ah was waiting fi dat, kah dat is di most logical counter example. Membah him half an half. If him was straight up chocolate drops (dis is ah Englan term to di max) den him wouldah have no chance. Tink bout it, ah my bwoy but him born wid ah advantage ovah most, an most being bout 99% ah wi.

[myYout]

Mi hate numbers aldough mi haffi deal wid calculations an algorid'm ebry day, as Jawge seh calc 1, 2 an 3 (an mi not eben telligent like dem man deh), but di % ah pale did very minuscule inna di grand scheme ah tings, derefore dem tend to 0 ovah a long stretch ah time. Cole ah guh testify pan di side ah him teammate ah jus suh di ting set. Yuh know how much cunk, wankah an black/********ing bastard use inna di English game, yuh wouldah surprise, suh Terry knowing him characteristics wi use a wud yes. Wi fraid fi guh match, kah once pale inna bungle yuh inna trouble membah dat. Englan well steeped inna racism from long time, nuh boddah try fit it kah it is ah fact. Dere is good pale mostly di ooman dem kah dem love wi, especially Ja, kah wi hab flavor an progressive, plus tan pan eh long ah fi wi own (yuh can ignore di last statement kah it irrelevant but it ah fact to).

[Peter R]

LOL... ok sir... I will leave it there but your post reminds me ... we used to have a poster here who called himself "Tanponilong" ... is u dat?