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Building on a 4-5-1 base!

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  • Building on a 4-5-1 base!

    Watching the game Friday it became very evident quickly that we were losing the first and most fundamental battle, the engagement of the front lines and control of the field, the battle of the midfield.

    In the Mexico game it was about defense, survival of the Azteca and being able to potentially counter without too much commitment in the attack. The panama game we had an opponent that is a real rival that is built like us and play well together, more than half their team play in the local league and probably most if not all the rest came out of the local league, they all know and play that panama physical, fast game with good passing combinations.

    We went into the game with 4-4-2 with Austin and elliott more defensive style players and from there it was not very clear what jobi and mcleary could do with two strikers at top and no clear fulcrum point in the 4-4-2.

    I am advocating a commitment to the 4-5-1 across Jamaican ball with the base of that pyramid being, stay home defenders, two defensive mids, a central attacking midfielder, two flank mids on either side of the attacking mid and one forward, we literally build a pentagon shape in midfield into attack, with the attacking mid at the center of the pentagon which is full of triangles for option passing and with five in midfield, at least you have a chance to win the first battle, control of the game, control of the rhythm of the game, imposing of will etc. panama committed more to the attack and into midfield that we did, every time you are outmanned in the critical area of battle you will typically cede ground whether in football or combat.

    With a focus on developing 4-5-1 we will have better structure with all our players understanding roles and developing a mastery of types of players needed to play such roles.

    The first task is developing a mastery in defense, creating an impregnable fortress in the back, that comes with developing excellent wing backs committed to defense first and with potential to attack if necessary and only if instructed to do so at certain times with role changes necessary to keep the fundamental fortress principle in place. Another Sub task here is developing the role of defensive midfielders who are excellent passers even potentially being able to initiate the attack by swapping out with the attacking mid to create variation in attack and bring in the element of surprise, but fundamentally the defensive mid has at his first strength high defensive aptitude, hawkish and excellent passing skills and aptitude.

    The attacking mid is a tough role, but here we are looking for speed of thought, speed of decision, excellent passer with vision, fast and strong with a low center of gravity, almost impossible to create, they have to be born and developed, think Maradona, in lieu of that we will take quick thinker good passing skills with speed and a leader on the field. The two flank mids , fast, skilled, can play defense well and can switch out with wing back on occasion or play forward if necessary, that is a tough combination but that is what is necessary in order to build the kind of longevity approach needed in our ball, this is continually missing as we seek to emulate the latest top team in the world with each succeeding new crop of ballers, Brazilian, Spanish, Argentinian, German, Dutch etc etc, much like how our politicians cannot stick to a fundamental model of economic development based around export led and import substitution, which has at its core earning more hard currency, limiting the use of hard currency to just capital improvement, but no go with the latest fad, liberalization of markets in an underdeveloped country with a clear addiction to nonlocal goods which leads to a severe dependence in every sector of the local economy and thus every shudder outside your economy rocks the local economy to the undercarriage, etc etc, same in football stick to one fundamental philosophy that maximizes speed, strength and skill each of which we have good competence in but never able to maximize that with an understanding of what we do and How we do it. Combining those things with a commitment to process makes for a very durable competitive product.

    We do not understand or comprehend how to simply move the ball under pressure
    When under pressure you cannot rely solely on instinct and trying to do the right thing you must be able to execute the responses to heavy pressure or control by the other team by responding with counter tactics developed in practice, changing the formation, changing the roles, consolidating the play into midfield.

    Two forwards at top when you are outgunned in the middle makes no sense you are wasting resources and you can't get to them anyway except through long ball so pull one back, fight the battle in the middle first. So 4-5-1 is the base, when facing inferior opposition that can quickly be changed to 4-3-3 with the right players at mid flank can be moved into straight attack or 4-4-2 if you are already winning the midfield battle push a man up, but always start 4-5-1 that is the formation of greatest strength at the start of the game when you don't know the opponent and you want to at least gain dominance in midfield or if the opponent is superior being able to clog the lanes like in the Mexico match.

    Build on that basic framework, developing the player types to fit into that framework and develop the strategies and tactics to support changing formation and thus player roles to create the element of surprise in the attack.

    What I see is we are developing a lot of attacking midfielders who cannot make the cut outside of the yard teams, somehow that position has developed into being equal to cool, deliberative, slow, tie your shoelace with untouchable ball at foot, matador style player but strong skill/vision element to it, in the pros this gets killed, they have to be two way players, with speed, vision and skillet the same time. We are not developing a slew of defensive midfielders who are also good passing and on the attack so we have Austin and then fall off to Morrison and that is it paying pro ball.

    We must develop players to fit the schemes and guide payers into the right areas with the proper focus on what makes it work in the pro leagues as at the end of the day that is the ultimate objective for Jamaican ballers export, export, export, if doe in all positions within a local framework when comes time to pay international ball they are just practiced pieces fitting into an old and tried framework.
    Last edited by Stonigut; March 24, 2013, 11:52 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Stonigut View Post
    The attacking mid is a tough role, but here we are looking for speed of thought, speed of decision, excellent passer with vision, fast and strong with a low center of gravity, almost impossible to create, they have to be born and developed, think Maradona, in lieu of that we will take quick thinker good passing skills with speed and a leader on the field.
    Who in the entire Jamaican diaspora best fits that position?


    BLACK LIVES MATTER

    Comment


    • #3
      Still is Jobi Mack, Hue seems to be a good fit except for average to below average speed and weak defensive aptitude.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Stonigut View Post
        Still is Jobi Mack, Hue seems to be a good fit except for average to below average speed and weak defensive aptitude.
        In Kingston Hue should be starting....no bones about it. Still our probs was caused by Panama's game plan to disrupt us and they did a good job of it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Jobi plays on the wing for his club, and is pretty effective too.Are you suggesting moving him inside the field to run our middle?
          Hey .. look at the bright side .... at least you're not a Liverpool fan! - Lazie 2/24/10 Paul Marin -19 is one thing, 20 is a whole other matter. It gets even worse if they win the UCL. *groan*. 05/18/2011.MU fans naah cough, but all a unuh a vomit?-Lazie 1/11/2015

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes he has played that role for a few clubs over his career.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stonigut View Post
              Watching the game Friday it became very evident quickly that we were losing the first and most fundamental battle, the engagement of the front lines and control of the field, the battle of the midfield.

              In the Mexico game it was about defense, survival of the Azteca and being able to potentially counter without too much commitment in the attack. The panama game we had an opponent that is a real rival that is built like us and play well together, more than half their team play in the local league and probably most if not all the rest came out of the local league, they all know and play that panama physical, fast game with good passing combinations.

              We went into the game with 4-4-2 with Austin and elliott more defensive style players and from there it was not very clear what jobi and mcleary could do with two strikers at top and no clear fulcrum point in the 4-4-2.

              I am advocating a commitment to the 4-5-1 across Jamaican ball with the base of that pyramid being, stay home defenders, two defensive mids, a central attacking midfielder, two flank mids on either side of the attacking mid and one forward, we literally build a pentagon shape in midfield into attack, with the attacking mid at the center of the pentagon which is full of triangles for option passing and with five in midfield, at least you have a chance to win the first battle, control of the game, control of the rhythm of the game, imposing of will etc. panama committed more to the attack and into midfield that we did, every time you are outmanned in the critical area of battle you will typically cede ground whether in football or combat.

              With a focus on developing 4-5-1 we will have better structure with all our players understanding roles and developing a mastery of types of players needed to play such roles.

              The first task is developing a mastery in defense, creating an impregnable fortress in the back, that comes with developing excellent wing backs committed to defense first and with potential to attack if necessary and only if instructed to do so at certain times with role changes necessary to keep the fundamental fortress principle in place. Another Sub task here is developing the role of defensive midfielders who are excellent passers even potentially being able to initiate the attack by swapping out with the attacking mid to create variation in attack and bring in the element of surprise, but fundamentally the defensive mid has at his first strength high defensive aptitude, hawkish and excellent passing skills and aptitude.

              The attacking mid is a tough role, but here we are looking for speed of thought, speed of decision, excellent passer with vision, fast and strong with a low center of gravity, almost impossible to create, they have to be born and developed, think Maradona, in lieu of that we will take quick thinker good passing skills with speed and a leader on the field. The two flank mids , fast, skilled, can play defense well and can switch out with wing back on occasion or play forward if necessary, that is a tough combination but that is what is necessary in order to build the kind of longevity approach needed in our ball, this is continually missing as we seek to emulate the latest top team in the world with each succeeding new crop of ballers, Brazilian, Spanish, Argentinian, German, Dutch etc etc, much like how our politicians cannot stick to a fundamental model of economic development based around export led and import substitution, which has at its core earning more hard currency, limiting the use of hard currency to just capital improvement, but no go with the latest fad, liberalization of markets in an underdeveloped country with a clear addiction to nonlocal goods which leads to a severe dependence in every sector of the local economy and thus every shudder outside your economy rocks the local economy to the undercarriage, etc etc, same in football stick to one fundamental philosophy that maximizes speed, strength and skill each of which we have good competence in but never able to maximize that with an understanding of what we do and How we do it. Combining those things with a commitment to process makes for a very durable competitive product.

              We do not understand or comprehend how to simply move the ball under pressure
              When under pressure you cannot rely solely on instinct and trying to do the right thing you must be able to execute the responses to heavy pressure or control by the other team by responding with counter tactics developed in practice, changing the formation, changing the roles, consolidating the play into midfield.

              Two forwards at top when you are outgunned in the middle makes no sense you are wasting resources and you can't get to them anyway except through long ball so pull one back, fight the battle in the middle first. So 4-5-1 is the base, when facing inferior opposition that can quickly be changed to 4-3-3 with the right players at mid flank can be moved into straight attack or 4-4-2 if you are already winning the midfield battle push a man up, but always start 4-5-1 that is the formation of greatest strength at the start of the game when you don't know the opponent and you want to at least gain dominance in midfield or if the opponent is superior being able to clog the lanes like in the Mexico match.

              Build on that basic framework, developing the player types to fit into that framework and develop the strategies and tactics to support changing formation and thus player roles to create the element of surprise in the attack.

              What I see is we are developing a lot of attacking midfielders who cannot make the cut outside of the yard teams, somehow that position has developed into being equal to cool, deliberative, slow, tie your shoelace with untouchable ball at foot, matador style player but strong skill/vision element to it, in the pros this gets killed, they have to be two way players, with speed, vision and skillet the same time. We are not developing a slew of defensive midfielders who are also good passing and on the attack so we have Austin and then fall off to Morrison and that is it paying pro ball.

              We must develop players to fit the schemes and guide payers into the right areas with the proper focus on what makes it work in the pro leagues as at the end of the day that is the ultimate objective for Jamaican ballers export, export, export, if doe in all positions within a local framework when comes time to pay international ball they are just practiced pieces fitting into an old and tried framework.
              Interesting thoughts Stoni... I likey

              Most interesting is that for such nice theoretical plan to have a ghost of a chance...you would have to jettison your crusade for a Jamaica team filled only with pros at so called "top clubs" .... obviously such players can only be available intermittently and very short term ....this would make your cohesive theoretical playing system impossible to develop.

              So if you are now advocating a local-led core squad of properly trained, widely exposed ball winning, space closing, fleet footed, hand to hand warriors operating in sweet unison in the space-time continuum...

              Welcome to the Red Pill Club
              TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

              Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

              D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks man, redstripe on the house!

                The foreign born option is actually our magic pill, 'poof' instant player with discipline and process ready to go. It is a great shortcut, but ultimately with short cuts you get to the place and you have to move on, the shortcut option window is narrowing. Really what we saw just shows that when other teams are as physical as fast and technically equal or superior we have no answer, that suggests insufficient or perhaps no scenario planning based on what the opponent possibly brings to the table.

                I am just advocating that we get much better locally by committing to a playing process with multiple variations based on opponent and conditions, as ultimately that must be the base of the program. My crusade as you put it is just to get us to the 2014 cup with the magic pill option but also with a core of foreign based locals, we are already here and we have not done enough from 1998 till now to go the local route. So as they say make hay while the sun is shining and if there is some free hay, take it too!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jobi Mack ??!!

                  lol ! woiee !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Get real.. wake up dude... you are in denial..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ok boss
                      TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                      Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                      D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        good points stoni... i'll add, whatever formation we decide to use, ryan johnson should be in the starting team... if beckford is the lone forward, ryan johnson should be playing behind him... ryan is a midfielder converted to forward... he can play both roles... supporting both the midfield and the forwards... we cannot afford to have such a versatile player on the bench...

                        luton shelton should be benched... he is a poor passer and makes poor decisions... it was obvious during this panama match...

                        kick and run, trying to outrun a defender without any understanding that the other defenders will be covering that long ball... i lost count on the amount of passes he made to the opposition...

                        jermaine johnson is a better option than shelton... the two johnsons should be in the starting eleven...
                        'to get what we've never had, we MUST do what we've never done'

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree somewhat he is more one dimensional, I just love the thought of him breaking on the counter.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you like that.. there is a fellow called Mattocks lighting up the MLS...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Maudib he is still the best option for that role, no dreaming, just bare reality!

                              Comment

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