From a GUNNERS fan corner: Wenger's expert at failure record

[Karl]

The other side of the coin -

Wenger's record
•Premier League: 1998, 2002, 2004

•FA Cup: 1998, 2002, 2003, 2005

•FA Community Shield: 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004

•Champions League runners-up: 2006

•Uefa Cup runners-up: 2000

•League Cup runners-up: 2007, 2011

The above includes just a little matter of 12 trophies and runners-up in 3!

...and there is the current fight to...being in the mix of a tussle to qualify for the Champions League for the 17th successive year and being in this year's FA Cup Finals.

Some record of consistent failure!
Some "expert at failure!

[Paul Marin]

The other side of the coin -


The above includes just a little matter of 12 trophies and runners-up in 3!

...and there is the current fight to...being in the mix of a tussle to qualify for the Champions League for the 17th successive year and being in this year's FA Cup Finals.

Some record of consistent failure!
Some "expert at failure!

No kidding eh....can you show me Rafa's record next to this? Or Pelligrini's? How about David Moyes or Roberto Martinez?

[Sir X]

Benitez 04 to 2010......6 years

Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Runner up CL-07
Runners up Prem-09

Are you an idiot to compare Rafa to Moyes,Martinez and Pelli,Wenger spent almost 18 years there,if you throw in Rafa 1 year at Chelsea,Rafa average is a 100% in being in a cup final ,he averages a cup playoff every year.

More proof you are a 5th columnist or a disrespectful idiot,parading as a liverpool fan.

[Paul Marin]

Benitez 04 to 2010......6 years

Liverpool
FA Cup (1): 2005–06
FA Community Shield (1): 2006
UEFA Champions League (1): 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2005
Runner up CL-07
Runners up Prem-09

Are you an idiot to compare Rafa to Moyes,Martinez and Pelli,Wenger spent almost 18 years there,if you throw in Rafa 1 year at Chelsea,Rafa average is a 100% in being in a cup final ,he averages a cup playoff every year.

More proof you are a 5th columnist or a disrespectful idiot,parading as a liverpool fan.

Remind me how many Premier League titles Rafa won again? Oh wait! I know - same as Moyes and Martinez! LOL!!! Still, me t'ank him for him service. But he had to go...same as you! Traitor!!! Go back and kiss that other traitor Paul Tomkins b*tty!! Your kinda supporter dat!!

[Sir X]

You cant hide behind that kind of asinine reasoning and call yourself a liverpool fan,it bares you out as a 5th columinist.You cant diss the elders,the master Rafa and the King K.D ,its not the 1st you have taken this tone and I suspect it wont be the last.The irony is you bellowing me down that Liverpool under BR will have to wait years before we challenge for the Prem and 4th place as a reasonable objective we should be satisfied with.That again shows your standards and I make no apologies in labelling you a fraud ,the most dangerous creatin to weasel himself into pool other than Hodgson.Irespective of you believing he had to go,yuh respect yuh elders,yuh respect foundation ! Irespective of you carrying belly for me, racing you up,calling you out,alerting the site ,awaking the town to the uncomfortable truth that you are a fraud , a 5th columnist,a weakheart of uncalculable flippance ! you dont do yourself any favors of disrespecting the masters.

Have you no standards , no shame,call me what you will ,traitor etc etc respect the elders/masters/foundation.

Havent I given the youth coach his credit even though I saw him as midtable,he proved me wrong and I hope he continues to ,it wouldnt be liverpool in me to continue bashing the man,credit is due,where its due am I so low as to not give it unlike you ? and dis bredda nuh win a ting yet,but he is on the cusp of it.

Check yuh ead Big Man ,move straight ,talk wid sense and brace up.

This is Liverpool.

[Paul Marin]

You cant hide behind that kind of asinine reasoning and call yourself a liverpool fan,it bares you out as a 5th columinist.You cant diss the elders,the master Rafa and the King K.D ,its not the 1st you have taken this tone and I suspect it wont be the last.The irony is you bellowing me down that Liverpool under BR will have to wait years before we challenge for the Prem and 4th place as a reasonable objective we should be satisfied with.That again shows your standards and I make no apologies in labelling you a fraud ,the most dangerous creatin to weasel himself into pool other than Hodgson.Irespective of you believing he had to go,yuh respect yuh elders,yuh respect foundation ! Irespective of you carrying belly for me, racing you up,calling you out,alerting the site ,awaking the town to the uncomfortable truth that you are a fraud , a 5th columnist,a weakheart of uncalculable flippance ! you dont do yourself any favors of disrespecting the masters.

Have you no standards , no shame,call me what you will ,traitor etc etc respect the elders/masters/foundation.

Havent I given the youth coach his credit even though I saw him as midtable,he proved me wrong and I hope he continues to ,it wouldnt be liverpool in me to continue bashing the man,credit is due,where its due am I so low as to not give it unlike you ? and dis bredda nuh win a ting yet,but he is on the cusp of it.

Check yuh ead Big Man ,move straight ,talk wid sense and brace up.

This is Liverpool.

LOL!!! Too funny. Did Rafa win the prem? Well in that regard, the FACT is that he is no different than Martinez (or Moyes) and not even in the same stratosphere as Wenger. Did Wenger win the CL? No, so in Europe, Wenger is not in Rafa's class. That my friend, is an example of fact. Not your nonsensical ruminations that mean nothing to men of substance...not to be confused with your posse (BT & HL): "men of substance abuse". That's why y'all predictions are always so horribly wrong. Think about it.

Secondly, your feeble attempts at characterizing me as a 5th columnist are not only laughable, but ridiculously ironic seeing that you have abandoned Liverpool 3 times, cursed-off the manager, and now that the team is in the ascendency, find it fit to TRY to don our colours again. LOL!!! Well sorry "homey don't play dat". You abandoned the team when it was in a dark period, went to "blue" pastures that have proven to be nothing more than fool's pursuit of silver, not unlike the 30 pieces of silver that Judas got to betray the Lord...and like he...you now want to feign remorse!!! No, no, no, you can do dem tings at little clubs...at Liverpool, you JUST DO NOT DO THAT!!!

No amount of your b.s. and twisted nonsensical reasonining will ever take away your traitorous ways. And as for you giving the youth coach credit...that is a joke. You jumped ship when he needed your support most. That is UNFORGIVABLE! You are a traitor. Hug it up. The true colors of a fan come through not when his team is winning, it is when they are losing. Your colours came through loud and clear, and we all saw you BLUE! No amount of your crap will ever wash away that stain. Stay away from our club. You are a heX, a jinX an eXile...all brought by your own despicable behaviour.

And as for me and my dissing of the elders, the bible have a verse that shows I can be forgiven if any offense is taken, (though no offense meant) as I speak FACTS. Unfortunately for you, it is not so kind :

Matthew 12:32 - And whosoever speaketh a word against Rafa Benitez or Kenny Dalglish, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against Brendan Rodgers or abandons our club for our enemies, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Look it up if you don't believe me. Benedict!

[Jangle]

Matthew 12:32 - And whosoever speaketh a word against Rafa Benitez or Kenny Dalglish, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against Brendan Rodgers or abandons our club for our enemies, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Look it up if you don't believe me. Benedict!

Moderators we need a big cannon "smile" please because this verse deserve a BOOMSHOT!!!!!

[Lazie]

I don't understand this. Mancini insisted he won 3 trophies at Man City. When I checked he won the FA Cup, the EPL and the Community Shield.

I see Wenger's record include 4 Community shields, Benetiz have 1. So how the community shield is being counted for everybody else, but not Moyes? As far as I'm aware he won it this season, or is it because it's MU it nuh count?

[Jangle]

Because that is Moyes first "real" trophy. We still want to erase him from our history.

[Lazie]

Because that is Moyes first "real" trophy. We still want to erase him from our history.

From a MU point of view that's fine. But how can those from other clubs insist Moyes nuh win nothing but proudly celebrate winning the same shield Moyes won this season? Can we get Xcuse on the forum? Only someone with his Xpertise can Xplain this one.

[Peter R]

What is a Community Shield? A bombshelter?

[Lazie]

What is a Community Shield? A bombshelter?

Mi nuh know, mi see Xuberant show it as an achievement for Rafa.

[Karl]

What is a Community Shield? A bombshelter?

The Football Association Community Shield (formerly the Charity Shield) is English football's annual match contested between the champions of the previous Premier League season and the holders of the FA Cup at Wembley Stadium. If the Premier League champions also won the FA Cup then the league runners-up provide the opposition. Generally ranked below the FA Cup and League Cup in terms of importance, the fixture is a recognised football Super Cup. - Source: Wikipedia

The Community Shield is considered 4th in importance after the EPL trophy, the FA Cup and League Cup. Various of the big clubs use it as gage on/of Club standing using against differing objectives.

My opinions on Objectives:
Examples:
BoyU used it under Sir Alex as gage on/of quality level of play (readiness) by players and his TEAM.

GUNNERS - Under Wenger uses it as assessment of 'players waiting in the wings'...emphasis on young players.

For me, it is a quality tournament/match usually provides great entertainment but has not the level of personal emotional following as that brought out by the other three major competitions mentioned above. Nice to win...but if not so what? ..although I get a bit upset/disappointed when we do qualify but our youngsters (at least some of our youngsters) do not show top quality play (=good technical skills, great TEAM play - support movement on attack and defense, etc.) i.e. prove by performance that they could be starters on most EPL teams. To me a sort of assessment of our Academy.

[Paul Marin]

Mi nuh know, mi see Xuberant show it as an achievement for Rafa.

I thank Rafa for his service, he was a good manager for his time. I am surprised heX never listed Rafa's promotion with Extremadura as silver to rahtid. Rafa can go tylit, leave a load, and heX would tell you the messiah just sh*t ice cream...such is his delusional, cult-like fixation with Rafa.

Anyway, I feel that Arsenal fans are seeing Wenger the same way I saw Rafa after we dropped to 7th in 2009/10. Time for a change, but for different reasons. In Rafa's case, he was up against crappy owners, was dealing with ridiculous policies and politics and was being disrespected. The conditions showed on the field.

On Wenger's part, he has delivered consistently on what he was hired to do - first: win the prem. He did that several times. When they decided to leave Highbury, his mandate became "keep us in the Champions League". Financially, it all makes sense. Unfortunately for Wenger, his fan base has grown impatient and they are not going to be happy even if the team wins the FA Cup. They want the Prem (again).

I don't think Wenger is the man to do that anymore but only because there is a clear shift that the younger managers are demonstrating in their willingness to take risk and drawing more out of young talent. Pochettino at Southampton, Martinez at Everton, Rodgers at Liverpool, Klopp at Dortmund, Simeone at Atletico...these guys are showing a new form of ball that requires youth, speed, mental strength, and tenacity that used to be the trademark of Wenger's teams, but he has somehow dropped off the pace.

Whether he goes or stays I don't know, it ain't my problem, but I don't blame Arsenal fans for wanting to change him out. However, to argue (as the basis for such change) Wenger's record as a failure while ignoring his mandate is simply stupid. Since building the stadium, management don't care about silverware, they only want top 4, that's it. On that front, he has been a resounding success.

[Peter R]

Thanks Karl, I actually was being tongue in cheek there... if you win it, which means you had to have won silverware, unless you got in against a team that doubled, it really sounds more like bragging rights for the next 24 hours after... and then back to business.

I wonder why they changed the name from Charity to Community?? that I don't know.