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Football? Suarez?

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  • Football? Suarez?

    Sometime past I made a post on the way cheating is institutionalized in football. Using my own experiences - Looking back in terms of playing time it was minimal. - from my very early introduction to the game it was accepted that the players, hold, push, trip, block...the opponent. They were a very many ways other ways cheating was inculcated as being a part of the game.

    It was encapsulated in the term,
    play to the whistle.
    It said to players and fans that unfair tactics and acts would go unpunished. There was the implied, if the referee failed to call 'the foul' it was A-OK to benefit. Taken a step further, it suggests, 'foul' but do not get caught.

    It is amazing that in the pursuit of a win it seems as if anything goes to achieve or preserve a win. If behaving in such a manner is not A-OK at worse it is expected!

    Now I consider being spat on as the ultimate abuse...disrespect...insult. Others have other pet peeves. ...but when I played being kicked, pushed, slapped, blocked...hand used on ball to prevent passes, etc...No problem!!! Hell...I developed a way of matching strides with my opponent if I could not legally win the ball I would swing my leg adjacent/besides the opponent's leg to slightly make contact as they trailed (just left the ground) most often that resulted in the opponent's trail leg then hitting his standing leg and putting him off stride. This usually resulted in the opponent falling. Just about all the time no foul was called. I have often wondered why I thought then and think now it was no big thing. Clearly it was deliberately applying unfair methods in the pursuit of a win...

    As a fan and one who has spent perhaps too much time studying the game, I learnt years past that spitting on an opponent, spitting in one's hand and wiping in on face and in hair of opponent, hurling racial slurs, crass references to female member's of opponents family as being engaged in the world's old profession, smiling in seemingly friendly manner and racking fingers across scull or face and worse is all par for the course in attempts to gain an advantage. Of course particularly in this age of cameras everywhere the easily seen over-the-top tackle that too often results in serious injury to the player on the receiving end...that type tackle...often results in no punishment or a 'do not do that again in this game' caution or 'off you go' tickle on the wrist.

    Suarez has not taken the cheating that exists to new heights, he has merely more often engaged in an act that for most persons appear to be more revolting than being spat on.

    Unfortunately - Spit on me and in that moment of rage I would be attempting to beat you senseless regardless of personal cost. ...that I know is a visceral reaction and devoid of applying rational thought, but that is me.

    So...do I believe in Suarez's biting opponents during matches?
    I am vehemently opposed to that action but not as vehemently as opposed to being spat on or the spitting on an opponent. FIFA shall take action as FIFA wishes...but to me the 'spitters' should be banned for life!!! 'Spitting' literally 'turns my stomach'. ...getting at someone who does that to me...is in that moment violent reaction to makes it 'right to die for'.

    The 'biting thing'? That Suarez guy is mad!
    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

  • #2
    you could have summed it up with the last line ... now mi head hurt mi!

    Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't understand what Karl is saying at all. A man with a history of biting doing it in the World Cup (on the biggest stage) without even been provoked at the time it happen, shouldn't be compared with anything else or deserves no empathy.
      • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

      Comment


      • #4
        Karl,

        I understand the point you're making. Essentially, cheating takes place and it is done so by many and it takes many forms. You are basically stating that some forms of cheating are more reprehensible than others.

        What FIFA should be doing is categorizing those offences that are non-playing related; biting, spitting, punching, head-butting etc. and assigning specific penalties for first, second, third offences etc.

        Offences like the one that Keane committed when he ended a man's career with a deliberate vicious kick, should also have proscribed sanctions.

        I have not fully thought this through, but off the top of my head, this is how I see it.

        BTW, Does that categorizing exist already?
        Last edited by Peter R; June 25, 2014, 05:28 PM.
        Peter R

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Peter R View Post
          Karl,

          I understand the point you're making. Essentially, cheating takes place and it is done so by many and it takes many forms. You are basically stating that some forms of cheating are more reprehensible than others.

          What FIFA should be doing is categorizing those offences that are non-playing related; biting, spitting, punching, head-butting etc. and assigning specific penalties for first, second, third offences etc.

          Offences like the one that Keane committed when he ended a man's career with a deliberate vicious kick, should also have proscribed sanctions.

          I have not fully thought this through, but off the top of my head, this is how I see it.

          BTW, Does that categorizing exist already?
          Peter, I don't believe categorizing exists other than

          1. Serious foul play
          2. Violent conduct and
          3. Misconduct...

          But as with all things FIFA, murkiness prevails! Karl may be able to clarify.
          "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

          X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Peter R View Post
            Karl,

            I understand the point you're making. Essentially, cheating takes place and it is done so by many and it takes many forms. You are basically stating that some forms of cheating are more reprehensible than others.

            What FIFA should be doing is categorizing those offences that are non-playing related; biting, spitting, punching, head-butting etc. and assigning specific penalties for first, second, third offences etc.

            Offences like the one that Keane committed when he ended a man's career with a deliberate vicious kick, should also have proscribed sanctions.

            I have not fully thought this through, but off the top of my head, this is how I see it.

            BTW, Does that categorizing exist already?
            Not as far as I know.
            Was not in my time as ref. Appears it is needed.
            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

            Comment


            • #7
              I am sure they could come up with more precise categories. How many different actions are there really? not that many. The rest can be covered by the vague "misconduct". Doing so would also make the ref's decisions easier, clearer and more understandable to all....
              Peter R

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              • #8
                Everything is deemed intentional. Intent has no place...or does it?

                Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                Comment


                • #9
                  But, a biting is not the same as a badly mis-timed tackle... at least not for me. At least in the latter case a man could argue he was attempting to get the ball... in the former, what's the reason?

                  A rash tackle, which you could reasonably argue is deliberate and intended to hurt, IMO, is still not in the same category of the biting, spitting etc. which are clearly NOT part of the game.
                  Peter R

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                  • #10
                    Oh I completely agree....

                    Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Peter R View Post
                      But, a biting is not the same as a badly mis-timed tackle... at least not for me. At least in the latter case a man could argue he was attempting to get the ball... in the former, what's the reason?

                      A rash tackle, which you could reasonably argue is deliberate and intended to hurt, IMO, is still not in the same category of the biting, spitting etc. which are clearly NOT part of the game.
                      Peter, while they are NOT the same, both of the examples you used fall under the umbrella of "violent conduct". The various leagues and FIFA however, have their own policies which provide further retrospective cover for disciplinary actions. For example, you could get a red card for biting as it is "violent conduct" or a red for "cussing off someone" or "calling them a racial name". After the fact, the leagues themselves can bring further charges as was the case with the first biting incident or the Evra incident. Had the ref given Suarez a red in the Italy game, FIFA could still have brought charges. The way the laws and policies are written now gives the ref and the governing bodies broad powers, which means they have to apply good judgement as adjudicators and administrators, which is where I believe it breaks down, not necessarily with the way the laws of the game or the policy manuals are written. As far as on field activities and adjudication, I believe the biggest problem is the inconsistency and rife ambiguity in the way in which each game is refereed, both within a game, from game to game and from ref to ref. In this day and age, it is ridiculous.
                      "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                      X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What about a violent headbutt, like Zidanes? I heard someone make the argument that Zidane only got a 3 match suspension for that so how can you justify giving Suarez a whole season ban.

                        I hadn't watched it for a while, but this was REALLY violent. Could have caused the man serious injuries.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-KCbGAZRPQ#t=39

                        I am now thinking that as sick as Suarez is, maybe he should get something like 15 international games and mandatory counselling. I honestly don't know what is appropriate.
                        "‎It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men" - Frederick Douglass

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Islandman View Post
                          What about a violent headbutt, like Zidanes? I heard someone make the argument that Zidane only got a 3 match suspension for that so how can you justify giving Suarez a whole season ban.

                          I hadn't watched it for a while, but this was REALLY violent. Could have caused the man serious injuries.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-KCbGAZRPQ#t=39

                          I am now thinking that as sick as Suarez is, maybe he should get something like 15 international games and mandatory counselling. I honestly don't know what is appropriate.
                          I speculate that you (and me too) don't know what is appropriate because all other attempts at curbing this "inhuman" behaviour have not worked. It appears to me from the outside looking in that there must be something deeply rooted in the behaviour, maybe its pathological. As far as I remember, Zidane also had his challenges with violence too, receiving red cards for other extremely reprehensible displays; stomping, headbutting and kicking were his weapons of choice, not biting. When at Juventus, he was red carded for headbutting, for France, he stomped full studs into a Nigerian player. For all his flaws, Suarez has not (I don't believe) received anywhere near the number of red cards that Zidane received in his playing career - in fact, I don't think he has received ONE in the last 5 years either for Uruguay or his club teams. I speculate that it is the fact that it is biting that makes Suarez's offences so despicable to most people because it is so universally offensive.
                          "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                          X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes it's the bizarre nature of it. You expect a tough male athlete to cuss, punch, kick etc...but bite? Something is really gross about that, not to mention the health hazard of potentially exchanging bodily fluids with someone who is clearly unstable mentally.
                            "‎It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men" - Frederick Douglass

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Liverpool had tamed Luis Suarez, but the Uruguay striker has lost it and I can't see him changing
                              The 2014 World Cup will be associated with Luis Suarez's bite on Giorgio Chiellini
                              The incident isn't dissimilar to Harald Schumacher's lunge on Patrick Battiston during the 1982 World Cup
                              Liverpool may actually be relieved if Real Madrid or Barcelona make a bid for the striker
                              He should be regarded as one of the finest but he will be known as the one who bites people
                              By JAMIE CARRAGHER

                              PUBLISHED: 16:32 EST, 25 June 2014 | UPDATED: 00:59 EST, 26 June 2014

                              1,544 shares 252View
                              comments
                              He will be remembered for ever but that is no compliment. The 2014 World Cup will be associated with Luis Suarez in the same way Spain 1982 is synonymous with Harald Schumacher.

                              I hardly saw the West Germany goalkeeper play but mention his name and I know immediately he was responsible for the outrageous collision in the semi-final that left France midfielder Patrick Battiston unconscious.

                              It was one of the most shocking incidents in World Cup history but, unfortunately, Suarez has put himself in that bracket after biting Giorgio Chiellini. Rather than being regarded as one of the finest forwards in the game, he’s now simply known as the one who bites people.

                              VIDEO Scroll down to watch Luis Suarez claim he simply collided with Chiellini's shoulder

                              Flashpoint: The 2014 World Cup will be remembered for this Luis Suarez bite on Giorgio Chiellini
                              +17
                              Flashpoint: The 2014 World Cup will be remembered for this Luis Suarez bite on Giorgio Chiellini

                              NEW FOOTAGE Luis Suarez allegedly biting Giorgio Chiellini

                              Worried: Suarez seemed sheepish as he walked through Uruguay's team hotel in Natal, Brazil
                              +17
                              Worried: Suarez seemed sheepish as he walked through Uruguay's team hotel in Natal, Brazil

                              I still find the incident in Natal completely bizarre. I worked with Luis every day for two-and-a-half years at Liverpool and if you spent time in his company at Melwood, you would struggle to believe he was capable of such ridiculous moments.

                              He’s a quiet lad, in the main. He’s not someone who squares up to people on the training ground if things don’t go his way and he’s not overly-aggressive or a bully. Yes, his desire to win is

                              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wor...ting-back.html
                              THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE!

                              "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


                              "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

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