Paul, Peter R and friends for ur reading pleasure

[Assasin]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...-was-horrified

[Peter R]

"You can call me “big-mouth”, “biter”, “diver”. There is proof. But to call me a racist – that hurts a lot."

I think that is how I see it; the racist label suited some people's agenda; just more proof of what a reprobate he is..

[Assasin]

As I said, then and say now, I have no proof he is a racist. Tell me about misunderstand but to call Evra a lyad etc....

[Paul Marin]

As I said, then and say now, I have no proof he is a racist. Tell me about misunderstand but to call Evra a lyad etc....

Sass, I think you would agree that when you are going to make a claim that someone is a racist, you should be absolutely certain. As I've said before, if an English man were to come to New York and ask someone on the street corner where he could "buy a fag", would he be guilty of soliciting prostitution? Intent, is a big part of it. The fact that the two men were speaking in Spanish underscores the context that the exchange should have been interpreted in, which I can almost assure you would have been the case had the incident been tried before a proper judge. Evra, for his part, changed his story many times, that may not be "lying"....but it certainly isn't indicative of one who is telling the truth.

[Assasin]

I don't assume people are racist, just because they may use a "racist" word or slang, it goes much deeper for me. The most important thing however is to get those words and behavior out of the game. It is not for the FA to decide who is racist or not if they have been deemed to commit the act, the FA has to try and find out if they did it or not, and punish them.

[Gamma]

"I’m not trying to pretend it was meant in a friendly way to Evra because clearly we were arguing. But nor was it ever meant as a racist slur."

hmmmm is he guilty of of using racist language?

[Gamma]

intent is important...i agree.

[Paul Marin]

I don't assume people are racist, just because they may use a "racist" word or slang, it goes much deeper for me. The most important thing however is to get those words and behavior out of the game. It is not for the FA to decide who is racist or not if they have been deemed to commit the act, the FA has to try and find out if they did it or not, and punish them.

The key to this is "did it"...what is "it" as far as you are concerned in this case. Do you think that the englishman who asked where he could find "fags" in NY is "guilty" of soliciting prostitution if he used the term "fag" to mean cigarette? It is a simple yes or no question.

[Assasin]

no matter how you put it, even Negro as Suarez use it have a negativity related to it and it was directed at Evra.

Totally different argument.

[Gamma]

context is important.....

[Peter R]

no matter how you put it, even Negro as Suarez use it have a negativity related to it and it was directed at Evra.

Totally different argument.

Not at all...yes, if an Englishman said it (in English), but not in Spanish the way South Americans use it!

[Gamma]

not true peter r .... context is also important in south america ..... negro is also used disparagingly in fact among some persons they prefer to use moreno ... rather than negro to make that distinction.

i had a girlfriend whose mother used to call her "mi cucumbre negrita" in the contect it was a term of endearment ...

"why, black man" was not a used in an endearing way given the context and he admits as much (he had to really). why did he have to say "negro"? who else was in the conversation why he had to make a distinction?

[Peter R]

"Why, dawg" may be the context... once you translate the word "negro" to "black man", the meaning will never be properly understood.

The fact he never said "moreno" says something ( I am accepting your statement re colour) doesn't it?

Anyway, I think we should agree to disagree on this Suarez incident... these days my energy level for debating isn't where it should be. I will leave you to have the last word.

[Assasin]

how else can we translate it, when he was relating to a very dark fellow??? You think he would say the same thing to someone who is white??

[Gamma]

the fact that he added something after "why" .. was never meant to be endearing ....

we can agree on that, agree to disagree i.e.