swansea vs Arsenal.....

[Gamma]

I was never a top footballer...but from my youngest days I played 'all over the field' including goalkeeper.

you need go no further....

[Karl]

I was never a top footballer...but from my youngest days I played 'all over the field' including goalkeeper.

you need go no further....

You need to read, skipper!
...as logic: What would prevent a far superior footballer from playing 'all over the field'?

btw - I remember a few years past - in the 1970s or 1980s when I asked for all players on my dream TEAM to be top sprinters, Karl Stewart said to me that football is not track. Now look at all the top teams? ..chock full of very, very quick players!

Formerly it was as you think it should be, the forwards attacked and scored the goals and many were they that put in no defensive work! Look at the game now, all the top managers demanding of all their players good defending! ...and all the players are stepping up.

Today more goals are coming from other players on the field than from the forwards...and more and more from the back you find outstanding goalscorers!!!

The world marches on and so does the game!!!

There are no limits to outfield ability...so with talent abounding is it not just a matter of time before all players on the field have top world skill to suit every department of the game? mmmm????...the game marches on???!!! Right?

[Gamma]

hmmmm based on your logic ... rogers can, and perhaps should, ask mignolet to play striker!

[Karl]

hmmmm based on your logic ... rogers can, and perhaps should, ask mignolet to play striker!

Based on yours,not a stretch to think you are suggesting Mignolet is as good in the outfield as he is in goal My posts certainly did not suggest any such thing.

...and your logic taken in the context of our series of posts in this read also leads to thinking that you believe that on Rogers' TEAM all the players have top world abilities suited for each and every position

Bwoy????

Aside: One day there shall be a TEAM where all players can play the outfield positions brilliantly. ...perhaps, far enough into the future all players shall be able to play all positions brilliantly? How does 5050 grab you?

[Rockman]

Karl this reminds me of Luther Vandross' dance with my father again,the part where he when my mother and I would disagree,I run from her to him,he makes me laugh just to comfort me,and then makes me do exactly what my mother said
You are going to make concessions regarding the keeper,and then defenders Sir.

[Gamma]

actually he has but he has not seen it.

[Karl]

Karl this reminds me of Luther Vandross' dance with my father again,the part where he when my mother and I would disagree,I run from her to him,he makes me laugh just to comfort me,and then makes me do exactly what my mother said
You are going to make concessions regarding the keeper,and then defenders Sir.

Well?...the 'keeper is a defender...

[Rockman]

Both positions are entrusted with protecting the goal.
I do believe a TEAM is most effective in keeping shape in attacking AND defending.What you are alluding to is breaking that shape on some individual feat,anti-team maybe?
Sure dynamic players are desired but that player still has to be the best at that position.Being suited for multiple positions is mere icing on the cake,that player will play second fiddle to a one dimensional player that is better in that particular position.

[Gamma]

who said that the keeper wasn't a defender?

as such he's not a striker and should not be asked to play that role unless there are some dire and exceptional circumstances, unless of course he is a bit part player who can do a little of this and a little of that without being particularly exceptional in all or most.

[Karl]

Both positions are entrusted with protecting the goal.

Yes...is so are the other positions.
The space occupied is to be used on attacking and on defending!

I do believe a TEAM is most effective in keeping shape in attacking AND defending.What you are alluding to is breaking that shape on some individual feat,anti-team maybe?

Yes! ....but that shape is as needed! ...so for example, changing from/through various triangular shapes is not breaking shape...rather it is responding to "the demands of the game".

So breaking shape occurs only when the movement is not what is required. Please remember that relative position of player to player always falls on one side of a triangle!

Sure dynamic players are desired but that player still has to be the best at that position. Being suited for multiple positions is mere icing on the cake, that player will play second fiddle to a one dimensional player that is better in that particular position.

Two things:
- as individual best at the position within TEAM;

- best suited for the TEAM.

Think on it - There could be in a TEAM of so-called poor players or TEAM of fantastic TOP OF THE WORLD players one player who is best at each and every position.


Being suited for and being great at multiple positions is icing on the cake. Just think how 'sweet' it would be the icing if each player on the TEAM was great at each position.

As coach the aims narrow to gaining best result for TEAM on each and every occasion. 'The problems' set by the opposing TEAM decides the good coach's strategy...and indeed that of the players as unit and each player on 'game demands'.

Playing second fiddle...I prefer, providing support...is as the game demands. In the grand scheme of TEAM all members are of equal importance. A player with superior talent and abilities must do all to help TEAM and may appear to the fan as 'the man'=of more importance than other players...but that is not how 'the coach' must view his talents. That 'star' is, as are all others on the TEAM, merely there to be exploited to fullest for 'the good of the TEAM'. When a coach moves from such an outlook, it is time to replace him as he shall never get the best out of the TEAM. ...remember? Only TEAMs win!

[Gamma]

how much did your ticket to shangri la cost?

[Karl]

how much did your ticket to shangri la cost?

Am I right?
You think perfection cannot be reached therefore man should not strive for same=do not work to be the best you can be!

You do know you do not know the best you can be until you stop trying! ..on stopping...that is it, you have already been your best!

~ sigh! - Football demands being as physically fine-tuned as you possibly can, as technically efficient as you can and tactically as brilliant as you can! It makes no sense putting limits on self and not trying! There is a saying, "reach for the stars and you fall on the moon".

I know that today it is not as the end point...but there is the future and the possibilities are endless.

Aside: Ever wondered why JA is as it is? One thing we know our leaders are not reaching for the stars.

...back to football - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj9qm8lSI1c
That was 'yesterday', 1953! Do a search for 1800 videos. Do you think at that time when we were all used to players loitering on the field anyone thought there could be 'machines' like today's Barcelona and Bayern Munich? No they would be saying the same thing you are saying now!!! Joke speculation! Fool-fool ting dat! Damn! In 1953 top of the world sprinters were running 10.4 100M. 9.5/9.6 100 yards. Snail pace now!

Think 5050? ...and what humans may be 'part machine/part man'? ...what about 1,000,000 years on? I bet you if we live 10 more years...just 10 more years we shall see players buzzing around on the field in a manner that when compared to today's best will seem to be 'out of this world'!!!! Guess you will then be walking around stunned? Right?

[Karl]

who said that the keeper wasn't a defender?

as such he's not a striker and should not be asked to play that role unless there are some dire and exceptional circumstances, unless of course he is a bit part player who can do a little of this and a little of that without being particularly exceptional in all or most.

..or exceptionally good at say, scoring from 12 yards out?
Right?

Say at striking penalties!
...btw - At a lower level at MC one year our best goalkeeper was for our D'Cup team our best striker! He was moved to the striker position - then that position was named center-forward. His name was Lancaster!!!!

...oooh! We won the D'Cup!

[Rockman]

Yes...is so are the other positions.
The space occupied is to be used on attacking and on defending!



Yes! ....but that shape is as needed! ...so for example, changing from/through various triangular shapes is not breaking shape...rather it is responding to "the demands of the game".

So breaking shape occurs only when the movement is not what is required. Please remember that relative position of player to player always falls on one side of a triangle!



Two things:
- as individual best at the position within TEAM;

- best suited for the TEAM.

Think on it - There could be in a TEAM of so-called poor players or TEAM of fantastic TOP OF THE WORLD players one player who is best at each and every position.


Being suited for and being great at multiple positions is icing on the cake. Just think how 'sweet' it would be the icing if each player on the TEAM was great at each position.

As coach the aims narrow to gaining best result for TEAM on each and every occasion. 'The problems' set by the opposing TEAM decides the good coach's strategy...and indeed that of the players as unit and each player on 'game demands'.

Playing second fiddle...I prefer, providing support...is as the game demands. In the grand scheme of TEAM all members are of equal importance. A player with superior talent and abilities must do all to help TEAM and may appear to the fan as 'the man'=of more importance than other players...but that is not how 'the coach' must view his talents. That 'star' is, as are all others on the TEAM, merely there to be exploited to fullest for 'the good of the TEAM'. When a coach moves from such an outlook, it is time to replace him as he shall never get the best out of the TEAM. ...remember? Only TEAMs win!

Karl,are assemble lines an efficient way of producing a quality product?
Designated duties:
A)Defense-Two defenders,two wingbacks,1 defensive midfielder
B)Offense-Two strikers,two wingers,1attacking midfielder.
Isn't A solution to B and vice versa?
The quality product is the offense getting goals and the defense not conceding goals.
If you have to have a wingbacker that must go forward then your winger is lacking.If you have a defensive midfielder that becomes pivotal to the distribution of balls to your forward then you likely have Mata on your team,lol.
The "icing' is a welcomed addition but trivial regading the existence of the cake.

[Rockman]

Karl,let us say the keeper is good at taking free-kicks,given the risk associated with the keeper upfield taking spot kicks isn't it crucial that the coach finds anotherf player to take those spot kicks?
It would be prudent because the risk of not having a goalie at his position.If according to you every position is equally important,why defense and other positions are not given the same credence as keeping goal?