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  • Ok - let's see what you geniuses think...

    Please note the key word "genius"...mi nuh wan' no eedyat chat. So I just came back from an ODP event in North Carolina. Teams aged 2005-2011 both girls and boys played a little jamboree between WV, VA, GA, NC. Each team played 3 games and each age group had up to 3 teams. For those of you who don't know, these are State pool teams, from which the National pool players are supposedly developed and drawn from. I coached our girls 2010 and 11s.

    Now - with that in mind...every team, in all the age groups, played the same system, (i.e. same formation, same instructions to each position, same tactics). For example, it was rare to see a keeper punt the ball out of the back. On goal kicks, everyone had the same possession-based approach (I have 9v9) so the 4 and 6 drop into the box, the 2 and 3 go high, and the 10 and 9 pivot while the 7 and 11 stretch them high as well. All short passes, ball on the ground, varied runs, diagonal passes, etc. Everyone on all teams played the same way so it was a bit predictable, but from a development point of view, I was able to replace my #10 (injured) with a #10 from the second team, and not lose a beat. That's a simple example of why having a single system of play has huge benefits and I personally advocate that approach especially because once you have the baseline, you can always tweak it for individual circumstances.

    Now my questions for the intelligencia:

    1. Does Jamaica have a single system of play in our youth system?
    2. If not, what is a realistic approach for Jamaica to create a single system of play?
    3. If so, is it working?

    Tenk u.

    P.S. Me nuh like this new forum. Grey/Black screen hard to read, so search so cyan drape up the pinheads. Just fi mi tuppance.
    Last edited by Paul Marin; January 10, 2022, 01:28 PM.
    "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

    X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

  • #2
    I can just answer Question #. Yes, Jamaica has a single system of play.....it is, ebry man fi himself and ebry yout is a star baller. Just dribble di ball an go score di goal my yute.
    Hey .. look at the bright side .... at least you're not a Liverpool fan! - Lazie 2/24/10 Paul Marin -19 is one thing, 20 is a whole other matter. It gets even worse if they win the UCL. *groan*. 05/18/2011.MU fans naah cough, but all a unuh a vomit?-Lazie 1/11/2015

    Comment


    • #3
      Paul a few things, My boys referee and one thing I didn't realize that there is now a line that players can't attack the ball before it passes that line at the U10 and below level. They had to confirm that to me. This make easier for a team to build from the back.

      The ODP system have the same system for all teams. I remember I suggested it on here and I also asked Colour to take a look at it when he was youth coach.

      There are just two systems that are affecting US soccer terribly.

      1)The big club take control and splinter up the clubs, Because of this it is hard to identify some of these kids at the state level. Because of this in Georgia for instance you have MLS Next, ECNL, ECNL regional, NPL, NL, and SCCL. SCCL and GA soccer have D1,2,3,4. A lot of these kids do not get to play against each other and tryout are usually 3 day span. Most of the big clubs moved away from GA soccer. Currently most of the MLS Next, ECNL coaches don't want their kids to do ODP.

      2) The other is what we spent so much time talking about is high school vs club. There need to be more coordination. Was just talking to my youths High school coach and then a college coach and the trust and difference is very obvious but they both said there has to be a common ground. The kids don't care about the fight.
      • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Paul Marin View Post
        Please note the key word "genius"...mi nuh wan' no eedyat chat. So I just came back from an ODP event in North Carolina. Teams aged 2005-2011 both girls and boys played a little jamboree between WV, VA, GA, NC. Each team played 3 games and each age group had up to 3 teams. For those of you who don't know, these are State pool teams, from which the National pool players are supposedly developed and drawn from. I coached our girls 2010 and 11s.

        Now - with that in mind...every team, in all the age groups, played the same system, (i.e. same formation, same instructions to each position, same tactics). For example, it was rare to see a keeper punt the ball out of the back. On goal kicks, everyone had the same possession-based approach (I have 9v9) so the 4 and 6 drop into the box, the 2 and 3 go high, and the 10 and 9 pivot while the 7 and 11 stretch them high as well. All short passes, ball on the ground, varied runs, diagonal passes, etc. Everyone on all teams played the same way so it was a bit predictable, but from a development point of view, I was able to replace my #10 (injured) with a #10 from the second team, and not lose a beat. That's a simple example of why having a single system of play has huge benefits and I personally advocate that approach especially because once you have the baseline, you can always tweak it for individual circumstances.

        Now my questions for the intelligencia:

        1. Does Jamaica have a single system of play in our youth system?
        2. If not, what is a realistic approach for Jamaica to create a single system of play?
        3. If so, is it working?

        Tenk u.

        P.S. Me nuh like this new forum. Grey/Black screen hard to read, so search so cyan drape up the pinheads. Just fi mi tuppance.
        1. No!

        2. JFF has to buy in.
        How do you get that buy-in?
        ...or...
        Who can sell the JFF that buy-in?

        3. See 1 above.
        "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

        Comment


        • #5
          1) No, as Jangle said its every man ( coach ) for himself and the results have been erratic , upto the national level, where under local coaches the national teams have failed misreably in every tournament of consequence. Several reasons have been banded about, but the most plausabile is a lack of coaching standards from youths to seniors of the required licensure. Look not every EPL club plays the system or philosophy of the English senior team and not all english national youth teams play the senior teams system/philosophy of football. The same can be said for all football powerhouses in Europe and South America. I gaurantee that all have a standardized system of coaching from youths to seniors.

          2) The realistic approach is to standardize the system of coaching, look we have B & C lic coaches running the RSPL, that standard is required for youths. You would not find them close to any european/ south american team doing nothing else but observing youths in an academy set up, yes they would be lucky to even coach academy youths. The JFF just fired a B lic coach, that was prejudicial to incompetent. The solution is the JFF must implement and mandate a standardized approach in coaching.

          3). "If so ,is it working" , see answers 1 and 2.
          Last edited by Sir X; January 11, 2022, 09:53 AM.
          THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE !

          "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


          "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

          Comment


          • #6
            X the US coaches can do this because they have strong coaches associations which educate their coaches and force them to work together and help them to be better paid.
            • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

            Comment


            • #7
              So what role does the USSF play ?
              THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE !

              "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


              "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

              Comment


              • #8
                You need help to connect the dots Sass, what does it say on your licence, which organization is it granted through.
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                THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE !

                "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


                "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jangle View Post
                  I can just answer Question #. Yes, Jamaica has a single system of play.....it is, ebry man fi himself and ebry yout is a star baller. Just dribble di ball an go score di goal my yute.
                  Jangle - that system has been around in Jamaica for ever. How well has it worked? The problem is pretty obvious isn't it. It's worse because unlike what they are trying to do here in America with the USSF Grassroots system (very good btw), we don't appear to have proper coaching at the u11 level...so loads of bad habits...but we can BRUK! LOL!
                  "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                  X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Karl View Post

                    1. No!

                    2. JFF has to buy in.
                    How do you get that buy-in?
                    ...or...
                    Who can sell the JFF that buy-in?

                    3. See 1 above.
                    Karl, I think there is a private sector approach that *may* be a door to the solution. Many of the bigwigs at big companies in Jamaica have a vested interest in football development - simply put - it sells products when we are doing well. Do you think that an enterprising group could be formed outside the JFF that setup its own leagues, coaching systems, and educational pathway as a responsible youth program development model? An example is here in the USA - unitedsoccercoaches.org - they have over 35000 members and run their own convention, coaching programs, and workshops - all at a reasonable price.
                    "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                    X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sir X View Post
                      1) No, as Jangle said its every man ( coach ) for himself and the results have been erratic , upto the national level, where under local coaches the national teams have failed misreably in every tournament of consequence. Several reasons have been banded about, but the most plausabile is a lack of coaching standards from youths to seniors of the required licensure. Look not every EPL club plays the system or philosophy of the English senior team and not all english national youth teams play the senior teams system/philosophy of football. The same can be said for all football powerhouses in Europe and South America. I gaurantee that all have a standardized system of coaching from youths to seniors.

                      2) The realistic approach is to standardize the system of coaching, look we have B & C lic coaches running the RSPL, that standard is required for youths. You would not find them close to any european/ south american team doing nothing else but observing youths in an academy set up, yes they would be lucky to even coach academy youths. The JFF just fired a B lic coach, that was prejudicial to incompetent. The solution is the JFF must implement and mandate a standardized approach in coaching.

                      3). "If so ,is it working" , see answers 1 and 2.
                      The problem with your solution is that it requires leadership to have vision. I don't see any evidence of that if it does indeed exist. In other words, programs can be implemented all day, but without good management/leadership, they will go nowhere. Who was the coach they fired?
                      "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                      X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Assasin View Post
                        Paul a few things, My boys referee and one thing I didn't realize that there is now a line that players can't attack the ball before it passes that line at the U10 and below level. They had to confirm that to me. This make easier for a team to build from the back.

                        The ODP system have the same system for all teams. I remember I suggested it on here and I also asked Colour to take a look at it when he was youth coach.

                        There are just two systems that are affecting US soccer terribly.

                        1)The big club take control and splinter up the clubs, Because of this it is hard to identify some of these kids at the state level. Because of this in Georgia for instance you have MLS Next, ECNL, ECNL regional, NPL, NL, and SCCL. SCCL and GA soccer have D1,2,3,4. A lot of these kids do not get to play against each other and tryout are usually 3 day span. Most of the big clubs moved away from GA soccer. Currently most of the MLS Next, ECNL coaches don't want their kids to do ODP.

                        2) The other is what we spent so much time talking about is high school vs club. There need to be more coordination. Was just talking to my youths High school coach and then a college coach and the trust and difference is very obvious but they both said there has to be a common ground. The kids don't care about the fight.
                        So Sass - here's my two cents:
                        1. That "build out line" is for 7v7 only. It is not at 9v9 or 11v11. it is also the offside line (as opposed to the halfway line) and the opponent has to be behind it on goal kicks to allow the kids space to play out from the back. It is very useful in training because it visibly divides the field into thirds.
                        2. MLSNext is for boys only - girls have the Girls Academy; most girls only want to play in college, boys want to go pro; that's why USL1 and 2 are so important
                        3. The big clubs that "moved away" from GA soccer are mostly in Atlanta only - there are good sized clubs in the rest of Georgia not in SCCL which by the way, causes a lot of problems.
                        4. "Most of the MLSNext, ECNL coaches don't want their kids to do ODP" - but they let them play high school?? The reason they don't (I believe) is because they are afraid of other coaches recruiting kids away from their teams. Also, remember, ODP only goes from U11 to U17, so it is not involved in very early player development.

                        My point: we can't expect to duplicate what America is doing. I personally think that there are too many leagues, poor definition of the pathway especially with the NCAA not being part of FIFA/US Soccer (and never will), and too many options. What would work would be a) one system - no breakaway bull **** like SCCL b) regional focus (e.g. it is ridiculous to have kids driving 5 hours for an ODP practice Friday night, 5 hours back home for a Saturday game, then 5 hours back to Atlanta for a Sunday night practice...crazy) c) a single league format for all age groups. So taking this to Jamaica, it would be like:
                        • Break the country up into regions (maybe by county)
                        • Each region has several league based on the population demographics
                        • Each region as up to 3 age group pools for players ID'd for further development (from u8 to u18)
                        • Set a training schedule for the regional teams
                        • Set a tournament schedule for the regional teams
                        • Select a national team from the regional pools
                        All of this is predicated on the governing body having:
                        • A common system of play
                        • Coaching development programs
                        • A commitment to each region having proper playing standards
                        • An attractive reward system for players (e.g. paid showcase participation etc.)
                        Wish I had the connections. I know I could pull this off.
                        "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                        X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Paul Marin View Post

                          The problem with your solution is that it requires leadership to have vision. I don't see any evidence of that if it does indeed exist. In other words, programs can be implemented all day, but without good management/leadership, they will go nowhere. Who was the coach they fired?


                          Credit to the JFF they are pushing out coaches with the B lic being it's highest standard so far. They are trying to get the A lic course implemented at the astronomical cost of $ 3500 USD ( sarcasm). Word is they want to start with 6 candidates .

                          The problem exist of a mandatory system to work and practice at age levels , I see that ironing out itself based on quality, I e those of the highest standard will be coaching RSPL and Manning cup/ Dacosta cup teams.

                          THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE !

                          "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


                          "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paul Marin View Post

                            Karl, I think there is a private sector approach that *may* be a door to the solution. Many of the bigwigs at big companies in Jamaica have a vested interest in football development - simply put - it sells products when we are doing well. Do you think that an enterprising group could be formed outside the JFF that setup its own leagues, coaching systems, and educational pathway as a responsible youth program development model? An example is here in the USA - unitedsoccercoaches.org - they have over 35000 members and run their own convention, coaching programs, and workshops - all at a reasonable price.
                            Paul:
                            The concept save "outside" meaning not affiliated to tell JFF would be possible. Again (?) the JFF would have to be pressured or convinced to adopt a hands off approach or a benign oversight approach to allow what you have suggested to be developed and flourish.

                            Can the present leaders of the JFF be convinced to allow that "development strategy" to take hold? The first step for those JFF leaders would be an acknowledgement that what they have fostered has not worked = is a failure/a failed policy.
                            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "You need help to connect the dots Sass, what does it say on your licence, which organization is it granted through."

                              https://coachingamericansoccer.com/a...-and-diplomas/

                              The United Soccer coaches Association which was formerly NSCAA that I have told you so much about in the past but you fail to open your ears. They have their own courses certification and diploma that is recognized all over. They have annual meetings that will blow your mind to see all the experts from world soccer that appear.
                              • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

                              Comment

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