Do we have an entire nation of exploited athletes...

[Don1]

... OR really poor education outcomes overall..OR both?????????

This is for the data inclined ...
Here are extracts from the latest available CSEC results from the MOE - Pgs 147-148

Overall % results in key subjects for students attaining grades 1,2 or 3 general proficiency level (Boys in parentheses)

Math: 37.5% (35.2)
Biology: 59.8% (59.1)
English: 52.0% (43.1)
Accounts: 60.3% (54.9)
Chemistry 63.3% (62.0)

The average rate of failure for boys in these subjects seems to be ~49% (failure being defined here as attaining grades worse than 1-3)


So the questions are:

1. How do the results of student-athletes stack up to these national averages?

2. If they're comparable what would the suss crowd have to say??

3. If they're significantly better...or worse...what are the reasons?

4. Re our student-athletes.... what minimum academic results do Jamaican or US colleges accept for sports or academic scholarships and what % of the total cohort sitting CSEC would theoretically qualify?
What % of student athletes would qualify?


This is an issue that can be easily illuminated by some first year college stats students in a few weeks... Instead we're inundated with carell talk and colorful personal anecdotes. Why am I the only person in this months-long debate who both realizes this AND proposes the obvious solution???


As a nation we have to learn the importance of data and its correct interpretation...Then again suss is so much more entertaining

[Mosiah]

... OR really poor education outcomes overall..OR both?????????

This is for the data inclined ...
Here are extracts from the latest available CSEC results from the MOE - Pgs 147-148

Overall % results in key subjects for students attaining grades 1,2 or 3 general proficiency level (Boys in parentheses)

Math: 37.5% (35.2)
Biology: 59.8% (59.1)
English: 52.0% (43.1)
Accounts: 60.3% (54.9)
Chemistry 63.3% (62.0)


So the questions are:

1. How do the results of student-athletes stack up to these national averages?

2. If they're comparable what would the suss crowd have to say??

3. If they're significantly better...or worse...what are the reasons?

4. Re our student-athletes what minimum academic results do Jamaican or US colleges accept for sports or academic scholarships and what % of the cohort sitting CSEC would theoretically qualify?


This is an issue that can be easily illuminated by some first year college stats students in a few weeks... Instead we're inundated with carell talk and colorful personal anecdotes. Why am I the only person in this months-long debate who both realizes this AND proposes the obvious solution???


As a nation we have to learn the importance of data and its correct interpretation...Then again suss is so much more entertaining

Do you have those answers? Then isn't this more suss and yapping?

[Islandman]

I don't think the data required would be that easy to get because while the macro-level stats are public information, the individual results are confidential. This exercise would require someone first defining who qualifies as a "student-athlete" and then finding out the grades of those specific individuals. Could be done but I suspect it would take a while.

The answers to the questions you have posed would certainly throw a lot of light on the debate though.

[Don1]

Do you have those answers? Then isn't this more suss and yapping?

Wrong

What I've outlined is a simple statistical model to illustrate the REAL problem (if any) ...and reduce the ignorant yappin via HARD DATA

Don1 ah raise di level... as usual

woooiiee mi math teacha Mrs Sobers wudda proud...even doh mi neva pass one test all now

[Don1]

It may be difficult to collect but ISSA has powerful tools to require cooperation.. This issue was anticipated... here's my proposal from the school sports forum:

Ok ISSA here's a useful & easy 1st Step to problem discovery
...re whether or not there's a BIG problem of sports vs academics vs transfers in high schools. Mi tiyad ah di unsubstantiated yappin now... wi need a data solution


Select 18 schools in divided equally by urban/rural ...(total 36 for the math challenged)

You already have lists of their football, track, cricket etc teams. Work with the schools on this project (data is anonymized of course to protect the kids) Noncompliance by schools results in delisting from ISSA competitions

By competition placings choose the 6 best, 6 middling & 6 poorest performing schools to gather the following data:


1. CXC test scoring by subject for each student (tracked by school & sport)

2. # of years playing for the school by sport

3. Date of entry to school and # of years in the school (to track transferees)

Collate those test score results and perform data analysis against:

4. Average test scores of the entire exam-taking cohort within each of the 36 schools

5. Average test scores of the 6 best, 6 middling & 6 poorest performing schools islandwide

6. National Average test scores



Voila!!!.... The results will illuminate a subject that is now unfortunately dominated by uninformed yappin by the ignorant and sour grapes by the sports-disabled

[Islandman]

LOL, interesting. I suspect there would be pushback against such strong-arm tactics by ISSA but some diplomatic version of that might work.

All that is assuming that ISSA would really want to know the results of such an exercise.

[Don1]

All that is assuming that ISSA would really want to know the results of such an exercise.

Aaaah...therein lies the rub. I can only propose, it's up to ISSA to dispose

[Don1]

Instead we're inundated with carell talk and colorful personal anecdotes.

cayliss talk

[Rockman]

Okay,so you have addressed an issue important to you,how about addressing a debatable one,not every athletes,the ones that get transferred.
A bona fide JC athlete is merely a JC student foing extracurricular activities,he received the same instructions as the rest of his schoolmates.
A transfer student is less impacted accademically by the school.

[Don1]

Okay,so you have addressed an issue important to you,how about addressing a debatable one,not every athletes,the ones that get transferred.
A bona fide JC athlete is merely a JC student foing extracurricular activities,he received the same instructions as the rest of his schoolmates.
A transfer student is less impacted accademically by the school.

Rocky your elliptical style is preventing me from seeing the point I'm sure is there. Pls reformulate your query

BTW... what I've addressed is not merely an issue important to me. This is bad framing by you which can lead to incorrect argument. Judging by all the uninformed yappin the issue is apparently important to many...including you.

What I've done is outline a simple model where data can illuminate an issue now dominated by the suss Jamaicans prefer. You, along with others with colorful anecdotes, have emerged as a Dr Suss on this issue

Funny that in the last few years when St George's was accused of excessive buying and transfers of footballers...I don't recall even the most modest criticism from you on the practice. Yet now you're one of the leading yappers questioning JC.

Could it be an unfortunate reaction to unuu relatively mediocre 2014 performance??

[Rockman]

George's was alluded to all along,traditional bullies and the new make up of six form.
Well does the stats address The issue of transfer athletes(no specifics provided on athletes period).
Let me ask you a question,apart from the KC manning cup champion team in the 70's,has there been any other all manning cup team that has a starting line up of players from one school?
Having won Pepsi and the Island under 14 is great,being afforded the privilege of an all manning coach (the ability to tweak from a wider pool)is improving is making great greater.The transfer of students in essence is what facilitates ......

[Don1]

George's was alluded to all along,traditional bullies and the new make up of six form.
Well does the stats address The issue of transfer athletes(no specifics provided on athletes period).
Let me ask you a question,apart from the KC manning cup champion team in the 70's,has there been any other all manning cup team that has a starting line up of players from one school?
Having won Pepsi and the Island under 14 is great,being afforded the privilege of an all manning coach (the ability to tweak from a wider pool)is improving is making great greater.The transfer of students in essence is what facilitates ......

Rocky unfortunately I'm still at a loss. I'm clearly not at your high level.

Please distill the most important query down to 2 lines.. thanx

[Rockman]

Do you agree that the stats you cited offer nothing concrete regarding the issue of transfer students?

[Don1]

Do you agree that the stats you cited offer nothing concrete regarding the issue of transfer students?

Phew!! ..Rocky that was as challenging as, well... Pulling silverware from a dusty, empty Munro trophy cabinet

Anyway I comprehensively DISAGREE.. Please review Exhibit 1:

By competition placings choose the 6 best, 6 middling & 6 poorest performing schools to gather the following data:


1. CXC test scoring by subject for each student (tracked by school & sport)

2. # of years playing for the school by sport

3. Date of entry to school and # of years in the school (to track transferees)

Collate those test score results and perform data analysis against:

4. Average test scores of the entire exam-taking cohort within each of the 36 schools

5. Average test scores of the 6 best, 6 middling & 6 poorest performing schools islandwide

6. National Average test scores

D1 nuh new to dis Rocky...Wi argument Solid Lika Rock

[Rockman]

It is going to take me some time to go through the 169 pages of the report,maybe you could help me by telling the page number that deals with info you provided above.