Sass: Lee Chin, investors push Port Antonio resurgence

[Karl]

Where has "all living well even as some have obscene wealth" been accomplished from a state of poverty in the socialist world in the last 50 years?

Nations who have moved from underdeveloped to prosperity in recent times have done it with some kind of capitalist free-market model and that includes places like China and India.

In terms of the discussion the above what you have written only makes sense if I am a rabid socialist i.e. believing what you ascribe to me. Well it may surprise you to know that yes, I consider myself to be socialist in outlook on a great many things...but, also conservative on many others...and, even have not given the time to consider others.

I believe I am so complex...which I believe most persons are to some extent...that there is within me uncertainty on/about many things. Unlike what many claim...say...of themselves - cut me, and I bleed!

[Mosiah]

bleed what? communist red?

[Islandman]

When I speak of socialist i am referring more to the macro-economic approach than anything else, not so much on the left in a more general sense. Indeed I consider myself to be on the left side of the scale on a few issues myself but I think I am fairly convinced that free-market economy and small government are the way to go most of the time.

I am all for government being there for those of us who don't get a reasonable shot at opportunities in this world and also those who suffer misfortune BUT generally I think most government programs are poorly run and don't achieve thier objectives and this goes for the mighty USA as much as it goes for Jamaica and goes for Bangladesh, so they should be limited in scope and duration as much as possible.

So I am not a pure, unbridled capitalist either. I think there are times that the free market, like democracy even, goes away from what they are supposed to achieve and I too get conflicted as to how far intervention should go.

[Jawge]

I like some of what you are saying
but I beg to differ on Grace. Please regard this critique as constructive:Grace is faced with huge competition from S.America and asia (Indonesia springs quickly to mind) these locations have low wage labor capital to spare and the land to mass produce the products. Grace cannot setup shop in these locations to enjoy these benefits. I have seen how Grace deals with the local competition (Roberts) it's akin to what the pirates would do back in the 17th century. Grace will be forced out of the foreign markets (with competition cloning all their products). Come to NY and check supermarket shelves and my arguments will bear much fruit. I don't know much about Superplus other than they are huge supermarket chain with some traits of Walmart. I don't think they can compete with the juggernauts of N.America (as their bases are firmly entrenched in asia).

"ome of the new generations of the old money that Manley and crew chased out of the country will see enough opportunity in JA to come back and invest."
The above in itself is a delusion of the past. they cannot compete anymore in the market and the working class that left to the states is now better educated and acquired some wealth. I hope Bruce isn't depending on these old quasi plantation types because they will just return to die the "slow death".

Basically the situation you described is that Ja's private sector is fighting a battle on ground that is already lost. It's going to take a new thinking and creative ideas from an educated class in JA (coupled with the diaspora) to handle what's on the horizon. It's good though because we could not benefit from the industrial age, but now we don't have to be third world in the info age;if we choose.

Nice talking to Sir.

[Islandman]

You may be right about the old money, I was more referring to thier offspring but maybe they are already totally integrated in American society.


Don't be too quick to write off Grace though. Douglas Orane is a sharp mind and not from the old school at all. Plus he is an engineer by profession with a Harvard MBA to boot so that should satisfy your academic requirements.

Karl is a big Grace man so he will back me up on this one.

[Jawge]

Well I hope for Grace's sake,
Mr.Orane can use his sharp mind to come up with something. Last time I checked; I saw desperation . That's not a good sign on the field of battle. Morphing into govt. will not stop the new global economy. I'm sure Mr.Orane knows this, so he must have a master stroke up his sleeve.

BTW, yes they are totally integrated and lost that drive. It's the new working class that found education and some wealth that has that zeal.However this class is scorned by your party.

[Islandman]

However this class is scorned by your party.

LOL, and you were doing so well today!

Anyway this was a productive conversation so i will let that one slide.

[Jawge]

Cho, how yuh gwaan so, juss
hope I didn't surpass my quota I wish to continue our dialogue, as I have an important question to ask you. Well let me do it now: What is it that the JLP has to turn around JA that the PNP lacks. Thanks.

[Islandman]

I think the main reasons it was worth giving the JLP a shot right now was that 1)The PNP govt had become more and more complacent and lazy because they were in office so long and 2) The PNP organization itself has some leadership issues to resolve although I expect them to handle it much better and efficiently than the JLP handled thiers.

The JLP in a nutshell has to get the economy growing consistently at a rate above 2-3% and has to find some solution to the crime problem. Everything else is secondary in my mind.

Just so you know I don't think the PNP didn';t achieve anything in thier 17 years. Most notable in my mind was the deregulation of the telecommunications which has produced a nice market of opportunites in cell phones, cable and internet services, and the start of the Highway 2000 project which has had its problems but MUST be done if we are to enable growth across the island and not just in the pockets of Kingston and the North Coast.

Too many scandals and too much waste of taxpayers money though, plus nothing that they attempted to control the crime problem worked.

Have to run but will check in later or tomorrow morning.

[Jawge]

Thanks; we will continue
tomorrow. I myself must run (working late). Be prepared to discuss this "leadership issue" that the PNP has.

[Karl]

When I speak of socialist i am referring more to the macro-economic approach than anything else, not so much on the left in a more general sense. Indeed I consider myself to be on the left side of the scale on a few issues myself but I think I am fairly convinced that free-market economy and small government are the way to go most of the time.

I am all for government being there for those of us who don't get a reasonable shot at opportunities in this world and also those who suffer misfortune BUT generally I think most government programs are poorly run and don't achieve thier objectives and this goes for the mighty USA as much as it goes for Jamaica and goes for Bangladesh, so they should be limited in scope and duration as much as possible.

So I am not a pure, unbridled capitalist either. I think there are times that the free market, like democracy even, goes away from what they are supposed to achieve and I too get conflicted as to how far intervention should go.

I would think that in a small country such as ours...government enterprises should be well run. With our 'one degree of separation' you would think theere would be competition to perform well...so as not to be 'shamed' in the eyes of others and to, as in/on a relay, not let the team (i.e. the country down).

We need to find a way to immediately punish slackers...and wasters...thieves and con-men! Get all working well!

[Willi]

gOLDING AND pORTIA ARE FROM sT CATHERINE!

[Muadib]

We have found a way... did you miss the last Government Elections ?

Keep up Karl...