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Karl..Ah likkle taste of the Brain Drain you advocate

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  • Karl..Ah likkle taste of the Brain Drain you advocate

    UHWI struggles after exodus of senior nurses



    BY NADINE WILSON Observer staff reporter
    Tuesday, January 12, 2010


    WITH the resignation of 77 of the hospital's nurses last year, most of whom left for greener pastures overseas, the University Hospital of the West Indies (UHWI) is facing the daunting challenge of finding senior nurses to fill managerial positions at the institution and to mentor younger nurses.
    The problem was highlighted by senior director of nursing at the UHWI Beverly Atkinson, who was responding to questions at yesterday's weekly Monday Exchange meeting of editors and reporters at the Observer's Kingston offices.

    Beverly Atkinson, senior director of nursing at the University Hospital of the West Indies speaks at the Monday Exchange meeting of reporters and editors at the Observer’s Beechwood Avenue, Kingston offices yesterday. Looking on is Peter Morris, senior director, human resources. (Photo: Lionel Rookwood)




    Atkinson said while the hospital has been able to hire 55 recent graduates to fill the vacant positions, there is not much remuneration to encourage more senior and qualified nurses to stay on the island.


    "The problem is that the middle level nurses -- and usually those are the more experienced ones, the ones who have done post-basic courses -- they are now the ones who are being invited to go to the United States .... and other Caribbean islands that offer a better package than we do in Jamaica. So we lose our nurses and we lose the persons who are available to mentor the new nurses," said the senior nurse.


    Only 45 per cent of the hospital's under 700 nurses are level two nurses, a less than satisfactory figure, since hospitals generally require more level two than basic nurses. These senior nurses are required to work in midwifery, in the accident and emergency unit and in the intensive care unit as well as other critical areas.
    To make matters worse, Atkinson said the senior nurses usually leave after being trained at the expense of the institution and without giving sufficient notice.



    "We are struggling very much now because you allow people to go through with basic courses, you set up succession planning, with the hope that you are going to get this person, and I don't know of other countries where persons are not open to tell you that they are going to be leaving in two months down the road," she said.


    In the case of midwifery, basic nurses are allowed to take a one-year course to upgrade themselves, while a six-month course is required for those in accident and emergency, nephrology and intensive care.
    "One of the good things about the university and it may be a bad thing, is that we train a lot of persons in the post-basic courses which allows us to give the care we should be giving as a tertiary centre, but then a lot of our staff, thus having obtained the extra training, are free to go," Atkinson said while pointing out that the students are not bonded.


    But even though the migration of the nurses continues to be a major challenge, Atkinson who is earning five times less than the amount she was earning in a similar position in California, said she could understand the reason for some of the nurses leaving.


    "For me, to work in Jamaica is for a nurse who has a calling, this is what you want," she stressed.
    And Chief Executive Officer of the UHWI, Dr Trevor McCartney, fears that more nurses will be migrating in the coming months, in light of the prime minister's announcement of a two-year freeze in public sector salaries.
    "This financial inadequacy when added to an increased shortage of nurses in the United States of America, Canada and the United Kingdom may see even greater migration in the days ahead," he said. "Fortunately with a large number of nurses currently being trained, replacements are available numerically. However, it is a challenge to replace experienced professionals with fresh new graduates."


    Atkinson also pointed out that while there are bachelor programmes now being offered for nursing, not many of these programmes focus on the clinical and practical side of the profession, resulting in the hospital having to give these students a six months extended orientation when they are employed.


    She said the hospital does not have a problem getting basic nurses as many turn up for positions without them being advertised. However, few stay once they have been trained and upgraded to a senior post.


    In an effort to encourage more of them to stay, even with the pull of more money and better working conditions overseas, Atkinson said they have recently implemented a series of programmes at the hospital.
    She said the hospital is looking at ways to increase the job satisfaction level for the nurses.


    "One thing is to have what they call shared governance," she said. "The nurse from the bedside has an input in what is taking place with the care of the patient, instead of just dictating from the top. That way, we come together as a council that involves everybody and make decisions that involve patient care as a team."


    She said they are also looking at fast tracking some of the basic nurses to fill more senior posts.
    "Gone are the days when you are several years in a position before you get promoted," she said. "We have to identify persons who have promise and potential and try and fast track those persons in primarily management techniques."
    TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

    Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

    D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

  • #2
    No, my friend!

    http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...arl#post204674
    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

    Comment


    • #3
      TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

      Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

      D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Don1 View Post
        Yuh heasy fi confused, eeenh?

        It is all about a conscious effort to build an education system that has inherent the aim of producing enough graduates (workers) to satisfy our needs and to also produce surpluses for/to 'export'.

        Currently we are in a passive...'hol wi belly an bawl mode'. We have not targeted 'produce to satisfy our needs with additional surpluses for export' education system and a method of structuring necessary compensation packages.

        We have an education system that needs overhaul and a 'ramping up' to meet our needs and more. We also have compensation packages that are woefully inadequate.

        Clearly if nurses are leaving and there is a problem at the University Hospital and or other hospitals and or throughout our health services it means -
        a) we have not the quality to replace those who have left and
        b) the compensation packages to retain them (...the compensation packages that would have prevented such an exodus).

        It tells us, with 'a club over the head', that we need to address the twin problems of improved training & other associate planning for succession to fulfill "a" above...

        ...and...

        ...'beefed up' compensation packages to address "b".

        Clearly we cannot keep 'wringing our hands' and continue acting as we have 'before'... ('before' has us where we are!). Did someone say, you cannot continue to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome?

        btw - What is there to be confused on or about...or, for that matter, what is there to find confusing?
        "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

        Comment


        • #5
          Karl;207653]Yuh heasy fi confused, eeenh?
          Yes...even this statement makes me

          It is all about a conscious effort to build an education system that has inherent the aim of producing enough graduates (workers) to satisfy our needs and to also produce surpluses for/to 'export'.
          I don't believe in that as an objective..ie export

          Currently we are in a passive...'hol wi belly an bawl mode'. We have not targeted 'produce to satisfy our needs with additional surpluses for export' education system and a method of structuring necessary compensation packages.
          We have a philosophical difference here on objectives of education policy

          We have an education system that needs overhaul and a 'ramping up' to meet our needs and more. We also have compensation packages that are woefully inadequate.
          Agree

          Clearly if nurses are leaving and there is a problem at the University Hospital and or other hospitals and or throughout our health services it means -
          a) we have not the quality to replace those who have left and
          b) the compensation packages to retain them (...the compensation packages that would have prevented such an exodus).
          True dat

          It tells us, with 'a club over the head', that we need to address the twin problems of improved training & other associate planning for succession to fulfill "a" above...

          ...and...

          ...'beefed up' compensation packages to address "b".
          Not necessarily "improved" training...but "more" training... if people find alternatives more attractive....which will be a persistent issue.

          Willi's suggestion of an increased bond for those benefiting from publicly supported education should be examined...imho

          Clearly we cannot keep 'wringing our hands' and continue acting as we have 'before'... ('before' has us where we are!). Did someone say, you cannot continue to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome?
          Yes but your "outcome" of planned export of precious & expensive talent as a policy...is misguided...imho

          btw - What is there to be confused on or about...or, for that matter, what is there to find confusing?
          TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

          Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

          D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Don1 View Post

            Quote:
            Clearly we cannot keep 'wringing our hands' and continue acting as we have 'before'... ('before' has us where we are!). Did someone say, you cannot continue to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome?
            Yes but your "outcome" of planned export of precious & expensive talent as a policy...is misguided...imho


            I don't believe in that as an objective..ie export



            We have a philosophical difference here on objectives of education policy
            What are your objectives of
            Education policy?

            Willi's suggestion of an increased bond for those benefiting from publicly supported education should be examined...imho
            Previously I posted in support of this!
            So...here we are agreed

            Yes but your "outcome" of planned export of precious & expensive talent as a policy...is misguided...imho
            You do mean?

            ...your "outcome" of planned export of unemployed (...and underemployed) precious & expensive talent...is misguided.
            That must have been what you meant, as it is those who would otherwise be unemployed...'excess to our needs' that I mentioned.

            ...and I spoke in the context of our education system being 'ramped up' and our compensation packages being 'beefed up' such that our needs would be met.

            What is wrong with putting in place various policies - it is obvious that it must be a series of policy initiatives - that move us towards 'full employment'? What is so confusing about that?
            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

            Comment


            • #7
              what if we do not have that surplus but they are still leaving?

              Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

              Comment


              • #8
                for the first time Karl a talk bout surplus etc.
                He always said we had the resources.
                • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

                Comment


                • #9
                  read what karl said again. he has covered all the bases, as per usual.


                  BLACK LIVES MATTER

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    so...what is he saying, REALLY?

                    Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I feel there is a difference between Brain Drain and Brain Lend....

                      that is just me doh..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gamma View Post
                        what if we do not have that surplus but they are still leaving?
                        That is where we are!
                        I am speaking on what we should be! ...where we should go!
                        "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          isn't that then a brain drain?

                          Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gamma View Post
                            isn't that then a brain drain?
                            Are you following?

                            Karl..Ah likkle taste of the Brain Drain you advocate
                            Was the nurses leaving what I am advocating? ...or even similar to what I am advocating?

                            Have we a system in place to satisfy all our needs and more?






                            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Brain Drain is not when you export excess. It is when you export the best without replacement.
                              • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

                              Comment

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