West Kingston Again!?!?

[Muadib]

The govt. should resign, true, but where would that leave us? Surely, replacing them with the group that protects the state within a state would not help either. If Bruce really wanted to show that he is not the same old same old, he can start by dismantling Tivoli Gardens.

All 14 PNP garrisons don't equate to Tivoli, so save that argument, BenJ and Lazie. As we speak, Tivoli is being further armed to the teeth!

Each Garrison is 1 Gauranteed seat. Garrisons are equal in the most important way possible and the Party with the most Garrison seats CANNOT be relied upon to seriously approach dismantling them. The odds favor the Party with the LEAST to benefit from Garrisons.. and that for those paying attention is the JLP.

If you people are unable to comprehend this simple reality you will be forever spouting emotional crap based on histrionics.

A die-hard cannot be expected to act rationally when it comes to their 'religion'. Certain people need to stop pretending they are open on certain matters. Karl was able to finally declare he is an 'alcoholic.. others need to follow his example.

[Muadib]

Well I never grew up thinking any Jamaican was second class and certainly not because of the colour of their shirt. I repeat: Tivoli has not been victimised.Try set that up in any of the first world country you admire so much and see what happens. Any first world country when the authority of the state is threatened comes down with supreme force. In Jamaica where the lines of criminality and politics are blurred then otherwise semi-rational poeple come up with rediculous arguments like yourself.
Jamaicans have a party which cries victimisation of Tivoli for public consumption but when talking to intelligent poeple privately admit the truth but say when they gain power they will 'control' it. Now there's leadership that inspires confidence. Jamaicans have a government that has abdicated it's responsibility to confront an unlawful threat to its authority because the threat is so well armed and entrenched that they wont do what any other self-respecting government is required to do. They should resign.

Hmm... so the 25 dead innocent civilians left to rot in the streets was what ?

Just Prior to every election.. like Clockwork..

Is what yuh call victimization ?

[Muadib]

When I read stuff like this I can see how politics F.... up Jamaica. When talking about economics, education etc you make rational arguments on this subject you are totally irrational. You guys are fond of making statements of how backward Jamaica is in comparison to first world countries. Try an experiment, set up a state within a state within any of the first world countries that you admire. Make sure that enclave has some good law abiding citezens living in it and see if any one of the countries you admire would tolorate it for a second. If you know anything about America or England you would know that a Tivoli would not be tolorated for one second. In fact Lazie it is because of politics why there arent more raids on Tivoli and this crap is allowed to continue.

Which First world country you know would a 'raid' on a community result in 25 innocent civilians shot and left to rot in the street and NO-ONE charged, fired or held accountable ?

Better yuh cool pon dis topic cuz yuh obviously way off center and don't even realize it.

Look up the FBI invasion on WACOand the results.. and that was nothing near being a community the size or makeup of Tivaarli.

Yuh know what yuh a chat bout ?

[Lazie]

Rudi and Mosiah, unuh mek

Lazie affi laugh. It is clear that as long as its Tivoli unuh have no problem with dem being treated like SH IT. Its the second time Tivoli under seige while **************** is happening elsewhere. Election is about to be called, time to kick things into gear. Step 1, invade Tivoli, meanwhile ...

The violence which erupted in sections of South St. Andrew Tuesday continues to take its toll on schools in the area.

Checks by RJR News Wednesday morning revealed that at all schools in the area were closed.

Tension in the area escalated Tuesday when two men were killed by gunmen in a section of the constituency known as Angola.

The handful of students who turned out to the Charlie Smith and Trench Town High Schools were quickly ushered home by watchmen and at least one teacher.

Residents of Angola and other communities in the area are calling on South St. Andrew Member of Parliament, Dr. Omar Davies to intervene in a bid to quell the violence.

Meanwhile, most schools in the West Kingston constituency were open Wednesday morning, following the chaos which accompanied the gun battle between gunmen and members of the security forces.

Wednesday morning, Principal of the Denham Town Primary School, Everton Jones said things had returned to normal at its institution.

“Everything is back to normal at the school. We have over 50 per cent attendance of students and over 90 per cent attendance of teachers,” said Mr. Jones.

“We had a very quiet morning, we had a lovely devotion and we had some counseling sessions with the children. The majority of the absences are children from outside the community who are not sure about transportation at this time,” he said.

[Rudi]

Bruce dismantle garrison? don't hold your breath. Even if he genuinely wanted to he would be dismantled first. As far as the powers that be are concerned he needs them more than they need him. He can run his mout for public consumption but don't dis the program. The leadership that Jamaica requires cannot come from the same poeple that were intricately involved in the obscenity originally no matter what the rhetoric says about being new and different.

[Mosiah]

The govt. should resign, true, but where would that leave us? Surely, replacing them with the group that protects the state within a state would not help either. If Bruce really wanted to show that he is not the same old same old, he can start by dismantling Tivoli Gardens.

All 14 PNP garrisons don't equate to Tivoli, so save that argument, BenJ and Lazie. As we speak, Tivoli is being further armed to the teeth!

[Rudi]

If it took my post for you to realize that then, where were you? Know what, just kill off all dem ********s in the area. That should solve our problem. Wha yuh say?

During the last raid Tivoli was under seige while 2 men were arrested in Upper St. Andrew. Why dem never duh the same in that area? One think I regret is that the Sunday Herald don't archive previous editions. Week before last Sunday I read an article about what is going on in a certain area, people from that area call the IJJ complaining, and rightly so, there is no invasion of those communities. But because people grew up thinking that those that wear green are second class, unuh nuh have no problem with them being treated like SH IT!!

Well I never grew up thinking any Jamaican was second class and certainly not because of the colour of their shirt. I repeat: Tivoli has not been victimised.Try set that up in any of the first world country you admire so much and see what happens. Any first world country when the authority of the state is threatened comes down with supreme force. In Jamaica where the lines of criminality and politics are blurred then otherwise semi-rational poeple come up with rediculous arguments like yourself.
Jamaicans have a party which cries victimisation of Tivoli for public consumption but when talking to intelligent poeple privately admit the truth but say when they gain power they will 'control' it. Now there's leadership that inspires confidence. Jamaicans have a government that has abdicated it's responsibility to confront an unlawful threat to its authority because the threat is so well armed and entrenched that they wont do what any other self-respecting government is required to do. They should resign.

[Mosiah]

Rudi, any sane person must understand that we cannot have a state within a state, esp. one that is as...well, less than noble as a Tivoli Gardens. Indeed, whenever you have these situations, the inner state has to resort to foul means to survive, whether it is drugs or whatever else. And their system of justice can be cruel even as they turn a blind eye to other crimes.

But when this happens in other countries you usually have an effective govt that has not abandoned its mandate to govern, so sendng the troops to restore order is not difficult.

That is not our situation here. The govt. has ignored these communities for years and will continue to ignore them for the near future. Nature abhors a vacuum and the dons, being a part of nature, duly filled said vacuums.

Do you know that Brazil has quite a few "garrisons" that are no different from what we have in Jamaica?

[Hortical]

Time for another invasion of Tivoli? The timing looks right, as election is 'round the corner.

[Lazie]

If it took my post for you to realize that then, where were you? Know what, just kill off all dem ********s in the area. That should solve our problem. Wha yuh say?

During the last raid Tivoli was under seige while 2 men were arrested in Upper St. Andrew. Why dem never duh the same in that area? One think I regret is that the Sunday Herald don't archive previous editions. Week before last Sunday I read an article about what is going on in a certain area, people from that area call the IJJ complaining, and rightly so, there is no invasion of those communities. But because people grew up thinking that those that wear green are second class, unuh nuh have no problem with them being treated like SH IT!!

[Rudi]

When I read stuff like this I can see how politics F.... up Jamaica. When talking about economics, education etc you make rational arguments on this subject you are totally irrational. You guys are fond of making statements of how backward Jamaica is in comparison to first world countries. Try an experiment, set up a state within a state within any of the first world countries that you admire. Make sure that enclave has some good law abiding citezens living in it and see if any one of the countries you admire would tolorate it for a second. If you know anything about America or England you would know that a Tivoli would not be tolorated for one second. In fact Lazie it is because of politics why there arent more raids on Tivoli and this crap is allowed to continue.

[Lazie]

My agenda? After how the ppl in the area has been treated over the years and unuh fail fi see whats happening, unuh need fi look pon fi unuh agenda.

[Mosiah]

Other stories abound. You will choose the one that best serves your agenda.

[Lazie]

Defending the Indefensible? A the 2nd time yuh accuse Lazie of that, and yuh cyaan explain yuhself.

A man who duh a likkle selling in the area had his stall set afire by the police. The last time an invasion took place they wanted a Nunu Puss or something like that. Months after he was caught and after being in custody for over a month he was released without charge.

You apparently see what is happening, "The irony is the PNP is counting on precisely that reaction ..." suh how yuh nuh have a problem with it? It iwould be wrong fi a JLP gov't to terrorize an area aligned to the PNP the same way it is WRONG fi the PNP terrorize the people of Tivoli.

If the police want the gunmen, why not gather the intelligence and arrest who fi get arrested? Would you want your community to be attacked like that? I wouldn't.

[Muadib]

You guys still dont get it. Lazie and Ben continue to defend the indefensible simply because you are locked into the zero-sum gain theory of if you denounce the crap that takes place in Tivoli it will help the PNP. The irony is the PNP is counting on precisely that reaction because the majority of Jamaicans know the deal. Newsflash for Ben and Lazie this sort of thing predates 1989 either you know that and are being dishonest or you have no knowledge of the history. Jamaica needs honest leadership that can admit the mistakes of the past and their role in it. This idea that this didnt happen before 1989 is a sick joke which doesnt help the JLP or Jamaica.

I certainly have denounced the crap that takes place in Tivoli. So has the world. Whenever you have 25 civilians shot and left in the streets to rot and no-one is held accountable you have a SERIOUS problem. When those given the reigns refuse to or are unable to deal with the problem and worse contribute to the problem as they pursue self-interest, they must be removed as a PRIORITY.

The stream is filthy and the head must be cleaned.