I think this is the most dynamic forum on the RBYZSC

[Lazie]

So at this moment your trust does not differ from mine?

Boss stop the hop-scotch we have been debating whether to support the Sistah P led PNP or the Bruce Golding led JLP! My faith lies in the PNP! Yours in the JLP!

*btw - I cannot find many of my recent posts responding to some of your crew?

I wonder why?

I hope my recent house guest, who told me that the JLP has the guest's vote, did not erased them?

The PNP is your religion KArl. Statisical data Proves that the JLP have always been better managers of the country's affairs when compared to your religion. T.K. loved to use a quote about pass performance being some indicator ... well .. it applies here.

Have you ever heard Portia propose anything yet? When she was running for the PNP presidency she was asked what were her plans and she ducked the question. Now she using religion to trick the halfwits in the country.

Now compare that to the proposals being put forth by the JLP! Gwaan fool yuhself.

[Karl]

Point taken.
Is there no possibility of a 3rd Party in Jamaica made up individuals who want to contribute to nation building and not just the party machinery. Are there no more 'good men' left? Could there be say an "Independent" party that would attract people from either side?

I am sure an Independent party could take root...but, I think that would take some doing. It would take years of working hard at it. There is the deep-seated 'diehard PNP or JLP' stranglehold to break.

Firstly - Those who offer themselves to serve in the political arena look towards quick fulfillment of that search to "get going". Such persons would find years of hard work at building a new entity not an option.

Secondly - There is the real understanding that it is the minds of men with collective will that make changes occur. That logically leads to acceptance that a change of personel and or "mind-set" within either party gives...has the potential to create "new thinking"/"new approaches". Either of the PNP and or the JLP - forget name...that word or phrase that constitutes the distinctive designation - can be the "new party".

The name/the thing/the party can be what those in/those who control/those with the power to determine it want it to be! ...and, the captive "diehards" would be there providing a base from which the "new entity" rises.

I think, it is important to consider that merely moving to a new name with new individuals with old thinking does not a new party make! I am thinking the name is not of vital importance.

[Lazie]

Third Party? Where? Listen, during the 97 campaign, the PNP came to St. Ann's Bay and a whole group of us went. When the JLP came only about 6 of us went. When the THIRD PARTY, the NDM came to Ocho Rios and mi a round up the crew, I was told "Nuh 3rd party cyaan wuk yahso Lazie!" Only 3of us went to that meeting.

Some of the people that keep asking for 3rd party only fooling themselves. They see that the PNP is a failure, but because olf pettiness they won't vote JLP, so they ask for a third party instead. When the NDM was making sound proposals in 97, where were those that are now asking for a 3rd party? I see klan VP Karl calling for constitutional reform, well the NDM made all those proposals.

Time we stop waste time. The vehicle that Balla claimed is the best to move us forward has been holding us back since 1972. Time unuh stop fool unuhselves. Unuh ever listen to or read wha Portia affi say at her meetings? People better wise up ... well Karl and JAwge done sell dem soul to the devil, suh they are excused.

[Karl]

The PNP is your religion KArl. Statisical data Proves that the JLP have always been better managers of the country's affairs when compared to your religion. T.K. loved to use a quote about pass performance being some indicator ... well .. it applies here.

Have you ever heard Portia propose anything yet? When she was running for the PNP presidency she was asked what were her plans and she ducked the question. Now she using religion to trick the halfwits in the country.

Now compare that to the proposals being put forth by the JLP! Gwaan fool yuhself.

Portia has the same priorities as have been stated over and over through the years.

Bruce has been restating them recently!

What is different excepting Portia is PM and Bruce is Opposition leader?

What we hope to see is IMPLEMENTATION of the various grand visions? Obviously you have not read the "Manley books" like your good friend Comment.

I also recommend to you speeches and actions of Norman Manley and Edward Seaga and that you take a close look at Robert Lightbourne (former Ministrer of trade and Industry). It may help you to see that Bruce's and Portia's course of action follows a path well laid out and recorded in black and white.

[Karl]

The PNP is your religion KArl. Statisical data Proves that the JLP have always been better managers of the country's affairs when compared to your religion. T.K. loved to use a quote about pass performance being some indicator ... well .. it applies here.

Have you ever heard Portia propose anything yet? When she was running for the PNP presidency she was asked what were her plans and she ducked the question. Now she using religion to trick the halfwits in the country.

Now compare that to the proposals being put forth by the JLP! Gwaan fool yuhself.

There is an all-important data that shows the JLP has always failed the people. That data - Numbers given the chance of upward mobility through education!

Have you ever heard the saying - Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

The JLP's history is 'give a man a fish'!
The PNP's has been 'teach a man to fish'!

Hey - yuh fishin!

[Lazie]

Portia has the same priorities as have been stated over and over through the years.

Bruce has been restating them recently!

What is different excepting Portia is PM and Bruce is Opposition leader?

What we hope to see is IMPLEMENTATION of the various grand visions? Obviously you have not read the "Manley books" like your good friend Comment.

I also recommend to you speeches and actions of Norman Manley and Edward Seaga and that you take a close look at Robert Lightbourne (former Ministrer of trade and Industry). It may help you to see that Bruce's and Portia's course of action follows a path well laid out and recorded in black and white.

Well after how Portia help covered up the Trafigura issue, After seeing who tabled bills to fight corruption and portia and her macots not willing to debate it. After seeing that the JLP understands the need for an educated labour force ... yuh need fi stop talk!

I don't need to read Manley's book, I leave that to unthinking people looking for reasons to justify failure. I will review the statistical data ...

[Lazie]

There is one all-important data that shows the JLP has always failed the people. That data - Numbers given the chance of upward mobility through education!

Mek Mosiah tell yuh the %age of kids leaving school that cyaan join the labour force and cyaan guh a college.

[Karl]

Mek Mosiah tell yuh the %age of kids leaving school that cyaan join the labour force and cyaan guh a college.

You would have a better understanding of that specific problem - not just high schools...but, the high schools + all our schools of higher learning (vocational, colleges and universities)...if you do the reading I suggested.

...as to migration do you think it is only since the 1950s that migration has been proving a safety valve to unemployment and other stress?

Duh...mi a beg yuh duh di reading dem!

[Lazie]

I deal with reality Karl. "But in the long term, we will have to address the deficiencies in the education system which continues to produce too many graduates barely able to read and write and who become a challenge even to train."

Yuh can throw up all the excuses yuh want. Your religious entity see this as progress, the JLP see it as an issue that needs to be addressed.

[Karl]

I don't need to read Manley's book, I leave that to unthinking people looking for reasons to justify failure. I will review the statistical data ...

(good smile...albeit wry smile)

Now, why would someone convinced of his/her position not be willing to take a look a what may be a dissimilar position?

Why would someone who claims high powers of reasoning run away from another viewpoint?

...what if there is even one kernel that would strengthen that resolve...or, a kernel to wipe away a misunderstanding...or, a kernel to clarify some point?

...why would someone run from more knowledge?

...fear of what?

Lazie: dat nuh soun lacka reasoned position!

[Lazie]

(good smile...albeit wry smile)

Now, why would someone convinced of his/her position not be willing to take a look a what may be a dissimilar position?

Why would someone who claims high powers of reasoning run away from another viewpoint?

...what if there is even one kernel that would strengthen that resolve...or, a kernel to wipe away a misunderstanding...or, a kernel to clarify some point?

...why would someone run from more knowledge?

...fear of what?

Lazie: dat nuh soun lacka reasoned position!

What knowledge? Data proved what Manley was a master of, statisical data proved that, I don't need to read his book of excuses. My granny always tell me fi walk away from trouble, I see what drugs duh people, I keep far from it ... .. you and Balla read the book and look ..... well nuff said.

[Karl]

I deal with reality Karl. "But in the long term, we will have to address the deficiencies in the education system which continues to produce too many graduates barely able to read and write and who become a challenge even to train."

Yuh can throw up all the excuses yuh want. Your religious entity see this as progress, the JLP see it as an issue that needs to be addressed.

Let me point you in another direction - how many of the young leave our education institutions each year?

You do realise that if we cannot produce jobs for 100% of those leaving...we have a growing problem?

...that gets worse and worse as the those who are unemployed are joined by others joining the unemployment line year following year?

...that eventually the society must explode! ...unless other avenues are found to absorb the surplus that our 'total available jobs'/job market can absorb?

Do you realise that with the pace at which we 'turn out' workers the island of Jamaica...the island will never be able to absorb the numbers we 'turn out' ...and, MUST find those other sources to absorb that 'surplus'?

[Lazie]

You realize that the policies of yuh religious entity, their incapability of getting crime under control is preventing the people of opportunities? Yuh notice that more countries implementing visas for Jamaicans?

[Muadib]

Well said. Well said. I would like to leave our disagreements at that.

You have a PNP Minister as an In-Law ??

Why yuh nevah seh suh long time and done ?

Jawge ? What is your excuse ?

[Muadib]

Portia has the same priorities as have been stated over and over through the years.

Bruce has been restating them recently!

What is different excepting Portia is PM and Bruce is Opposition leader?

What we hope to see is IMPLEMENTATION of the various grand visions? Obviously you have not read the "Manley books" like your good friend Comment.

I also recommend to you speeches and actions of Norman Manley and Edward Seaga and that you take a close look at Robert Lightbourne (former Ministrer of trade and Industry). It may help you to see that Bruce's and Portia's course of action follows a path well laid out and recorded in black and white.

That should give you pause.. it is well recorded in black and white, yet PNP is unable to IMPLEMENT in 26 years of rule.. all of a sudden because Sistah P is now leader.. wallah, presto.. where has she been all these years ? What separates her from Phillips or Omar ?.. she is woman and she love poor people ?.. stop form di a55....

If you can't know by intelligence or theory, you should know by PRACTISE.. aftah dat..wi cyaan help yuh.. maybe a psychologist can assist.