Mi hear all the wonderful things that we

[Muadib]

What almost scoring goals against Guatemala haffi duh wid technical deficencies that are going on since I watching Reggaeboyz ??

I have no problem identifying them.. yuh want me live wid mi head in di sand like some ?

Mi can cuss dem out when time come tuh..

Ah wheh duh dis breddah ?

[Assasin]

we have to be fair. Yes we don't have the technical abilities of the Germans but when people a go put up stats, them must be fair. The fact is we have to encourge our players and when others do the same thing no matter the standard we have to accept it.

We can't use one standard for the Germans and one for the Reggae boyz because they are in different leagues especially when quoting stats. Call a spade a spade.

[Stonigut]

This is what is so frustrating, to get the stats we have to go through the match and count every shot etc, I had a mind to do it just count shots, shots on goal and then goals just to start seeing how our game is still extremely immature on the attacking side, but it takes time and commitment to do it. Back to your argument, ok let us say you are right, let's make some basic assumptions you count 8 shots in your head, let's double that to 16 even though I doubt we ever get that many shots off per game, then as you say two goals on 16 shots is 12.5 percent, then you two hit bar and three saves plus the two goal is seven shots on goal out of 16 is still less than 50percent so you see even on a great day as that was in terms of attacking state are way behind, less chances created, average to poor accuracy and low conversion rate, even compared to germ on their worst day of the tournament. We need to do some immediate benchmarking , goal setting, measurement at the coach to player level. Each player with set goals, each position with set goals and hold individuals and units to set goals by measurement of performance each game, I would love to see how they are actually uning measurement performance at that level are they breaking out the stats and the details or is it, i like what you did there and more on a gut feel anecdotal kind of feedback, that is important but must be followed up with fundamental bottom line what did you do facts.

[Assasin]

Well it is fustrating because stats alone don't tell the game and while we need to improve in so many areas, when we compare we must be fair. Oh my the way while this stats may not be the best for Germany, this in not our best day either.

My point is we must be fair when we use stats to beat down our players. Everybody giving the reaxons we are behind and use these stats to try to prove their argument but when we our players do the very same thing and obtain the stats even though it maybe lesser team we consider them wasteful and worthless. If we consider them that way I don't see why it would be hard to say the other team are. Is it because they are playing "top" opponents or is it because we look on them as "better teams"?

[Muadib]

look like yuh confuse.. what stats mi put up.. ?

[Assasin]

you nuh need no more stats. Just watch the England/Italy game and you will see for yourself

[Stonigut]

Well stats is not everything but it is almost everything, regardless of what level you are playing the bottomland is there re just certain things that will not change, I have been shooting to do a basic article the build up and attack in the middle and final third and showing how far we are behind by looking at goal difference ratio between gf and ga in top club leagues versus leagues like mls or say our own npl and what we see is in Italian, Spanish English German even Brazilian the top two clubs are scoring two plus goals er game and allowing less than or about 1 per game in the case of la liga it is almost close to three gf for the top two teams, but when you look at npl or even mls the top teams are only scoring 40 plus to 50 plus goals over 37 games while in those leagues mentioned they are scoring 80 to 100 plus goals over the same number of games, what that tell me is that we have a far way to go in understanding the intricacy and details of attack, creating chances, moving the ball at speed via passes in final third, creating great opportunities and thus scoring chances, if we don't measure against others then we stand still even if they are different level opposition in the leagues clearly we must copy what they are doing. I have A pretty good idea what they are doing on multiple levels and we must do those things to be competitive.

[Assasin]

But there are many reasons why we are not scoring half as many goals. One thing can be said is that unlike years ago when we had Walter Boyd, Nandi Lowe, Ricardo Fuller etc in the NPL now I can argue we don't have any of our top 10 strikers in the NPL. We have players in England, Norway, others in Vietnam, MLS, College, A Leauge, college and one in Central America and they are all scoring, plus now some youngsters in Europe.

It is a fact that the build up is one thing but you hear the NPL coaches bemoan the lack of strikers to put away easy chances. Nowadays it seems like a guy score 10 goals in the NPL he will get a contract even before the season is done at even some low league team. I would advise any talented young man not to stay in the NPL after 19 years old. It is local league that good players can develop bad habit in. Is a Semi-pro league and just that. Some decent players but a lot of below average players.

[Stonigut]

Assassin that is not the reason, I am sure if we go back 100 years no side has scored at a two goal per match clip ever in Jamaica top league,we must dig deeper the answer is in the numbers, benchmark the best and copy every thing that is not nailed down. We are not even at the start line as we are measuring nothing at all, no feedback on the fundamentals.

[Assasin]

but if we don't have the quality players in the NPL they are going to lack the fundamentals. The English league and the Italian leagues etc have their best and they can also pay to get other top player from elsewhere. The NPL have no such luxury.

yes we have to try and improve it but understand in the NPL you have some very good players and some very bad ones with bad habits that couldn't make any other professional team. Habour View/Portmore and Tivoli can buy the best players from other teams but most of the other teams in the league can't even afford to pay their players.

The current Calibre of strikers are not very good. Maybe in two years time it will rise again when you have another group of the former under 17s in the NPL.

[Stonigut]

I think that is incorrect, we have te raw talent there, we not picking the right guys, we not focusing on the right things. I truly relieve the guys are there we just need to lay down the structure correctly and ensure that the multi tier system we have works based on performance data.

[Assasin]

My advice is stick with the youngsters. The NPL not going to get better anytime soon. I hope you are correct but the youths are leaving younger. Tollouh and Mattocks two of the better Manning cup scorers came to college, Holiness I understand is in Costa Rica, Remember two youth went to Valencia, Tremaine Stewart in the Nordic, Craig Butlter placing some of the talented youths. Those youths along could account for about 25 goals a year in the NPL plus the highest scorer in US NCAA is also Jamaican who chose not to go to the MLS. The youth who went to Villa on trials "Rambo" say he is not playing in the NPL. If we are losing all these talent then it is hard to duplicate that. Hope Cavalier come good because they have good young player but watch and see how many going to leave in a year or two.

[Jangle]

You know Stoni, I didn't spend too much time reading your other posts about stats, but reading these between you and Sass, I realise that you are making some very excellent points. While statistics are not the be-it-all-end-it-all, it is a very useful tool to help coaches. These are first world tools we talking about here. You is a bright bwoy; yuh must have gone to a very good school. Come to think about it, is ongly one good school inna Jamaica, therefore you must have attended Campion. Dem deh level of reasoning is ongly done by Campionites.

[Stonigut]

Read the other post them man, just the fundamentals that, in order to release the natural competitiveness of the Jamaican people you need a clear open structure so they know where they stand literally in every thing, however this corruption that has taken over threatens to wipe out everything good that has been created in the last 100 Plus years, funny enough the positive track Jamaica started from how I see it from governor John Peter grant who set up the basic structure after the Morant Bay Rebellion that really in essence started Jamaica on the independent path much as we have gotten off in a gully since and a place like Singapore is just shining bright. He. Created the base of the building of Jamaica for Jamaicans as opposed to the stripping of every asset that the Jamaican planters were focused on! maximum output minimum input into infrastructure. Anyway bottom line it is about structure, goals, measurement and feedback in every thing all we have now is pure feelings, contacts and underhanded ways of getting things done as the system has fundamentally failed.

Read up bout him pretty much all the fundamental institutions that Jamaica still has was put in place by him. Hey the only thing Campion was known for in my days was Some sweet girls, and the headmaster who dressed like colonel sanders and yeah a little swimming, btw wha yuh ah talk bout campion and you is a rabalac man?

[Stonigut]

Sharpe, bogle, Garvey, Washington Manley wanted that new structure to build a base for the empowerment of Jamaicans, somehow we have fallen off the path.
Turn this from football to politics but same fundamentals, clarity is needed across the board.