Karl: Academy vs. Schools

[Jawge]

So academics would be taught at nights? Yes?

[Jawge]

I know because that's no fun. I wish I had the time to stick around and really disagree with you

[Sir X]

We are talking about football,dont water down the subject, you admit its possible, certification is the Key,how the JFF and ISSA can setup that system to mandate only certified coaches in charge of manning cup teams or school boy football,is the issue , as for pay, who pays these T&F certified coaches at these athlethic power houses in high schools.

JFF should be focused on one thing , getting mass certifications for school boy football.T & F has done and been doing it for decades ,with little to no support.GC foster doesnt fall under the umbrella of the JAAA but they churn out certified teachers.Issa could mandate such a move by itself.

I cant see why not, a meeting of the minds , We had a coach at ardenne who was the PE teacher for pepsi and colts.

What if ISSA mandated all schools must have a certified coach and all schools must have a unified philosophy of how to play Jamaican football.

Nuff food for thought, granted it wont be a full fleged academy but its a huge step from nothing, i keep saying the JFF needs to have a stakeholders meeting.

[Karl]

No waste yuh time, just allow results to take its course.

The first flaw; at the youth level in Ja is technique. High schools cannot teach or improve on a player's technique (not enough time). Poor technique will kill you at the INT'L level. Mi done talk.

Jawge that is not true!
There is more than enough time. In my time the coaches themselves did not have or know the basics on technique...and up to recently when I visited in JA technique on kicking and passing was not being taught! ...neither was proper heading technique.

No one demonstrating how to properly kick a ball....or discussing use of head on passing/properly heading the ball.

The chest-trap?!
The chest-pass?!
Yes!

Attempts at fancy passing? ...highest level passing? Yes! ...but a waste if you have not mastered the most simple of passes. ...the control of the ball on the higher level passes will then be more 'buck-up' than consistently accurate.

Free-kicks --- well if you cannot kick properly then...????
Goal-scoring? .....well if you cannot pass well...???

...and on and on...!
Speed work?
No!

Fast feet work?
Not enough! ...so little can be considered...NO!

...endurance work?

High intensity! ...recovery! High intensity! ...recovery!
Not much!

Teaching the game?
Never! -- It is, duh wah mi seh...yuh mindless heediat!

[Karl]

The point was really that Academies are more likely to do the required coaching education than schools, where even though the educators may be professional educators, they are not football-specific-educators, especially for the very young players below high school.

The questions came from US Soccer's National Youth License final exam. I just took the course. It was GRUELING. I went from 8AM to 7:30/8PM Th, Fr, and Sat; plus 4 hours on Wed and 8AM - 4PM on Sunday. Every night, on top of the tiredness, we had at least 2 hours homework. We studied every form of the game as it applies to kids U6 - U12. It was attended by A License coaches, former professionals, including 2 former Canadian national team players, club administrators, DOCs, Academy Directors and of course, ordinary coaches like me. While I was there, I asked myself "how would it be possible to get a high school coach in Jamaica through this?" and "I wonder if they have something like this in Jamaica?". If anyone knows the answer to these questions, please let me know and I will go attend to see how different they are.

Anyway - my point is that I don't think schools are the right environment for soccer development after having gone through this course and formally educated myself. It is just not practical. Sorry.

Happy you took the course.
Make me happier by telling what next?

Context: Jamaica

Now are you really saying we could not find thousands of Jamaicans who could successfully take such a course?

...and why would school-teachers find those courses too difficult?

...and why could such soccer courses be not made available to teachers of physical education and also to college students?

While courses for both current teachers of football and college students be introduced...it may just be, as it is on most changes on enhancing subject knowledge/introducing 'cutting edge knowledge', easier to train the teachers while in teachers' colleges and 'unleash' them in 'classrooms'?

...say, 6 colleges x 30 students = 180 students being released into the society each year? ....followed/supplemented with continuing education courses - local and outside of the island/international & theoretical and practical i.e. sabbaticals at professional clubs?

It is not as difficult as you think, Paul. It just needs leaders with vision who can motivate *parties with vested interests to buy in!

*JFF and its affiliates.
Is it widely recognized that the colleges, high schools, prep schools are also among the JFF affiliates? ...that the entire society has a vested interest in development of a vibrant football industry?

[Gamma]

damnit man! i agree with you. what the hell is wrong with you?!!

[Gamma]

football is an extra curricular activity ..... who is going pay for the training and to pay these football specific coaches to be with the school full time? Min of Ed? JFF? ISSA?! that is not ISSA's mandate. they see over the administration of the comeptitions, they do not provide coaches etc.

it is possible but impractical, improbable and highly unlikely. and if so, then they should also have baskeball specific coaches with certification, hockey specfic coaches with certification, tennis specific coaches with certification and so on and so on. all of them full time (not teachgn history and goegraphy as well) coaching year round not just during the season of the specific sport...

[Jawge]

No waste yuh time, just allow results to take its course.

The first flaw; at the youth level in Ja is technique. High schools cannot teach or improve on a player's technique (not enough time). Poor technique will kill you at the INT'L level. Mi done talk.

[Don1]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is simply overkill and nonsensical!

I attended the national coaches convention last year and the things they found the time to create into a lecture...unreal!

Reminded me of college when some professor would receive a grant to do a year's study of "The American Bedroom"!

Ah suh di Yanks dweet... nuff fluff

It's a situation created by access to too much money

Jamaica has the OPPOSITE situation

[Sir X]

Is it possible to get football specific coaches into the school boy system ? ala the JFF working in tandem with a sports college to get coaches up to the X standard and mandate or work with Issa - the collective (stakeholders) to implement such , like we have done with T&F.


Juss asking.

[Gamma]

thanks for that ...... no doubt karl will disagree with you but quite often that is a good thing and is to be worn as a badge of pride!

[Mosiah]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of this is simply overkill and nonsensical!

I attended the national coaches convention last year and the things they found the time to create into a lecture...unreal!

Reminded me of college when some professor would receive a grant to do a year's study of "The American Bedroom"!

[Mosiah]

Oh Gawd!

[Don1]

Do you think school high school or elementary coaches in Jamaica could answer these questions:

1. Explain how Torbert's Expansion-Equalization-Interactive challenges apply to the selection of practice activities and give an activity that illustrates each concept.

2. List several basic characteristics of both U6 and U12s and then discuss what implications these characteristics have upon how you would conduct a training session for each group.

3. Discuss Mosston's Slanty line concept and its implications for youth soccer.

4. Expound upon Csikszentmihalyi's Flow Concept.

I will tell you where these came from and why I ask when I hear from you. (and lay off google until I do! )

A couple more interesting questions:

Do you think Winnie could answer them correctly?

Do coaches at any level need to know the answers to be effective?

[Paul Marin]

Yuh eva notice ow offfen mi seh dat di besses waay fi larn happens wen hit his hen-jaw-hebble? Di larnin appen an hit 'jus a appen'? ...in one sense the persons learning does not immediately realize learning is taking place?

hit its yuh aftah-wud? ...usually when the knowledge is required in a practical situation. ...could be 'exam' as in formal exam and outside of the classroom (e.g. in a discussion on relevant topic or area/subject, etc. or in the act of 'doing'!!!

-------

second edit and second btw - Why did you title your original post - Academy v Schools? It really should not be a one or the other in terms of quality of tutors and instructions given. ...I do not think there is a conflict or a one or the other. Certainly for JA we need both as top quality institutions.

The point was really that Academies are more likely to do the required coaching education than schools, where even though the educators may be professional educators, they are not football-specific-educators, especially for the very young players below high school.

The questions came from US Soccer's National Youth License final exam. I just took the course. It was GRUELING. I went from 8AM to 7:30/8PM Th, Fr, and Sat; plus 4 hours on Wed and 8AM - 4PM on Sunday. Every night, on top of the tiredness, we had at least 2 hours homework. We studied every form of the game as it applies to kids U6 - U12. It was attended by A License coaches, former professionals, including 2 former Canadian national team players, club administrators, DOCs, Academy Directors and of course, ordinary coaches like me. While I was there, I asked myself "how would it be possible to get a high school coach in Jamaica through this?" and "I wonder if they have something like this in Jamaica?". If anyone knows the answer to these questions, please let me know and I will go attend to see how different they are.

Anyway - my point is that I don't think schools are the right environment for soccer development after having gone through this course and formally educated myself. It is just not practical. Sorry.