Here we go? - Gleaner EDITORIAL: JLP on sale of the JPS

[Muadib]

Comment...I speak of my personal observations. I am from a little village in Hanover...perhaps, most famous for being the birth place of Merlene Ottey...but that little village has been transformed from what it was when I was growing up.

...and, I have met and conversed with many, many persons with similar experiences. The plusses, for me, are on the PNP side.

An aside:
What is the point of a country having growth of 5%, 10% 20% if the vast majority of the people are in abject poverty?

...would it be better if all the people had comfortable economic circumstance?

What about the PNP model ensures that the people are not in Abject poverty ?

Which non-production, non-growth model takes people out of poverty ?

Talk like you have sense and are the beneficiary of good education... the way you are talking implies that any mediocre politician could sam-fi you or use a distribution of scarce spoils model to fool you into thinking there is progress.

Remittance is preventing massive social unrest, do not be fooled or play the fool.

The country currently owes nearly 1 Trillion Dollars.. who is paying that debt ?

What production capacity has that borrowed money developed to ensure comfortable payment of that debt ?????

If you are unable to reason like an educated person on this matter just say so and stap waste people time !

[Comment]

But Karl........

"This govt. has presided over the greatest transfer of resources from the poor to the rich since slavery was abolished"

but you just feel that you like them.



Oh well................

[Lazie]

Karl, apparently unuh nuh know what good fi unuh then? When the Overseas Development Council did their quality of life index, it was discovered, “Most Jamaicans enjoyed a relatively high quality of life when compared with their neighbors. For example, in the early 1980s, Jamaica's physical-quality-of-life index computed by the Overseas Development Council was higher than that of Mexico and Venezuela and equal to that of Trinidad and Tobago.” (US Congress Library).

Then again, most of unuh suffer from battered wife syndrome, suh what should I expect? Today the Human Development Index proves that Jamaicans are the 2nd poorest in the Caribbean ... suh stop yuh foolishness bout majority in abject poverty.

[Karl]

that there was a great exodus out of poverty under the PNP when by all accounts (all the multilaterals, and our own STATIN) the country became poorer under the PNP in the 70s.

I suppose you subscribe to the Omar Davis accounting philosophies........

Comment...I speak of my personal observations. I am from a little village in Hanover...perhaps, most famous for being the birth place of Merlene Ottey...but that little village has been transformed from what it was when I was growing up.

...and, I have met and conversed with many, many persons with similar experiences. The plusses, for me, are on the PNP side.

An aside:
What is the point of a country having growth of 5%, 10% 20% if the vast majority of the people are in abject poverty?

...would it be better if all the people had comfortable economic circumstance?

[Comment]

and how can it appear to you Karl

that there was a great exodus out of poverty under the PNP when by all accounts (all the multilaterals, and our own STATIN) the country became poorer under the PNP in the 70s.

I suppose you subscribe to the Omar Davis accounting philosophies........

[Comment]

Who was it again who said.

Here in lies the problem - The JLP you state have been better managers, but many would claim that as it relates to their particular circumstance the PNP have been great.

It is claimed that during the JLP years it is the 'topanarises' that had their circumstances improve...while during the PNP years it is claimed the net was spread wider and the appeal to inner sensibilities has had a more profound effect on individuals pulling themselves up by their own individual efforts.

...to be personal it was during the reign of the Manley, Sr. PNP that the common entrance examination was openned to the children of the 'masses'...and, it appears to me that the great exodus from adject proverty to enjoying the fruits of a more 'comfortable existence' became possible.

"This government (ah...that would be the PNP) has presided over the greatest transfer of resources from the poor to the rich since slavery was abolished"


Who was that again.........

[Karl]

A company that has mediocre employees needs the best Management possible to make the tough decisions regardless if the employees have shareholder votes...

The evidence at hand indicates the JLP are better managers than the PNP.

Mayor Mckenzie is a far better manager than Atkins.. why is this ?

Maybe the culture of the PNP does not allow good managers.. who knows.. and who cares..

It is only convenient for you Karl to be spouting "it nuh matter which P inna power' because currently YOUR P is in power.

Don't be a hypocrite Karl.

It always matters what P is in power. 1972 - 1980, 1980-89 and 1989-2007 is CLEAR evidence of this.

Keep bringing it up Karl yet you seem to ignore it.. when a Stream is dirty yuh haffi start cleaning at the Head. Filter is clogged beyond recognition after 18 years of 'progress'.. Filter change long overdue.

Here in lies the problem - The JLP you state have been better managers, but many would claim that as it relates to their particular circumstance the PNP have been great.

It is claimed that during the JLP years it is the 'topanarises' that had their circumstances improve...while during the PNP years it is claimed the net was spread wider and the appeal to inner sensibilities has had a more profound effect on individuals pulling themselves up by their own individual efforts.

...to be personal it was during the reign of the Manley, Sr. PNP that the common entrance examination was openned to the children of the 'masses'...and, it appears to me that the great exodus from adject proverty to enjoying the fruits of a more 'comfortable existence' became possible.

It appears to me that, certainly over time, various attitudes tied to advancement through education spurred us on...and, continues to this day. The thought that all things were possible, if only we, our children and our children's children and those following after...were allowed access to education is seared in our consciousness. Rightly or wrongly (tongue in cheek) the PNP has stuck to the idea that through knowledge..acquiring of knowledge...education...for our people, all things are possible....and, that act by the Manley, Sr. led government ties the PNP to such an initiative.

Certainly the action of Michael Manley in attempting free education fits right within the thought that there is none among us who is 'lesser' than the other...and, all can and must have the avenues to lift self towards greater and greater economic status? Right?

The point is what does managing to benefit only a few have that is so over-riding that managing to benefit all is thrown through the window? Sure there have been failures by successive governments...and, it may surprise you, but it much more important that there is progress that benefit all than it matters which "P" rules. Yes, I am partial to the PNP as leaders of governement...but, if a JLP governement can deliver on the principles of the PNP of moving the entire country and its entire people forward, then so be it.

My problem is I am not convinced that my cause and the cause of all our people was advanced by promoting growth for a few of us and ignoring the the rest of us. I am convinced that more Jamaicans excaped proverty and hopelessness under past PNP leadership than under the combined efforts of all past JLP governments...
...and, I am not convinced a coming JLP government shall do better than its predecessors.

btw - It must be nonsense to be suggesting that the Jamaicans who gravitate to the PNP are any less competent at managing than those who gravitate to the JLP. Surely our history has shown that. If it were not so, surely the country would be much further advanced on the road to prosperty? Surely the competent managers would have left institutions and the like which would be seen as obviously beneficial that they stood the test of time...and, would ahve left us in a better place than we are today?

The idea being advanced - not so subtly - that the people are fools and thus turn from proven competent leadership to incompetents is but the normal posturing of 'politicians'? Surely it is more logical to think that the people see value...good value in turning to, at various times in their history, to the various past leaders...past "P's"? Surely...????

[Comment]

Maudib, such concepts are for another session

Who decides the size, makeup and funding of State institutions ?

Who heavily impacts the ability of Private Sector companies to access captial, the cost of captial, the tax burden and degree of red-tape operating a business in Jamaica ?

Who makes policy ?

What di *&(^# wi put Ministers in place fah ? Fi decide seh is 'di people' fault ? Who is 'di people' ? Dis sound like a side step approach to avoid accountability.. Seriously Karl.. how much dem a pay yuh ? Yuh deserve a big position up in deh !!

when dealing with addiction issues especially severe ones like Karl's, it is best to take small steps. He has admitted to something being amiss. Perhaps, if he can manage, later on we will introduce him to the concepts of accountability and good governance.

[Lazie]

Lazie is fully awake, thats why I'm aware that its unthinking people like you that continuously elect incompetent people that caused us to be the 2nd poorest in the Caribbean. Di whole a unuh must proud boy!

[Muadib]

Lazie, I have you pegged already! You see everything as the great JLP and the awful PNP. No place in your mind for reality.

I wonder if you have ever lived through a JLP or any other PNP reign? If you did you would have seen that both parties have come up with good 'talk' from time to time...and, abject failures that slowly devour us over time.

Just look at these few programs -
JLP's Edwin Allen - growth of technical high schools
PNP's Michael Manley - Free Eductaion for all

JLP's Robert Lightbourne - emphasis on import substitution of finished products with the so-called "screw-driver" industry - value added product - in manufacturing...as complementary to our agricultural base.
PNP's - programs to rationalise agriculture - production through to marketing (Remember the AMC - Agricultural Marketing Corporation?)

Look at various government's efforts to open up the tourism products to locals and to build on the pitiful early efforts when visitors were numbered in the hundred of thousands in the '50s to the millions who now visit.

Look at the Railway corporation's neglect under both "P's" and the demise of same.

Look at the rise of the garrisons? Who introduced the garrison to the Jamaica landscape?
JLP!
...and, who took the idea of that one garrison and 'run wi hit'?
PNP!

...and, what are we reaping from these garrisons? Bloodshed in the inner cities and excursions into the wider society of mayhem...and, the warping of the minds of our young all across the island. - Pox on both JLP and PNP houses here!

Neglect and or lack of expansion of road system, water system, sewage sytems...etc. - both as a result of PNP and JLP apathy.

...what of the indiscrimate construction of houses and other buildings? No plans to properly construct...continue construction of our cities and towns? - occurred over time under both "P's".

...and, on and on...

Walk up to the plate and wake up, boss! Call a spade a spade!

Cut the crap about merely changing one of the "P's" for another will suddenly change the hearts and minds of our people and dream that the multitude of areas needing immediate attention will suddenly find the funding...be funded to the U$ trillions of dollars that is needed. ...cut the crap about any "P" being able to solve all our problems overnight.

Aside:
When last the wife and I were in Jamaica (last Summer) we visited the Noel Holmes hospital in Lucea, Hanover. Three of our boys were born in that hospital (late '60s-early '70s)...Dr. Arthur Wint was our physician...what we saw was a crumbling poorly run, underfunded institution...but, in the 60s and 70s when we utilised the services of the institution it was also in a state of being 'run-down' and it was under-funded. 'Time' got it where we saw it!

I visited Manning's High school (student late '50s early '60s), Munro College (student early '60s)...both institutions had much better physical plants when I was a student. They where both underfunded in my school days...and, they are still underfunded and both have had their physical plants deteriorate. They could be said to be in a state of disrepair. ...and, so it was with Rusea's High School where I taught in '60s-early '70s period. Guess what? We have had both JLP and PNP governments during the intervening years!

Lazie: Point being under both "P's" there has been good talk...and...????

...and, who are those who rule as PNP and JLP MPs? If as I believe, that in Jamaica there is only 'one degree of separation'...then, we are all extremely closely connected...then, the failures and under fulfilling of potential must be 'fi wi fault'. Certainly it must be those failures and that under fulfilling of potential would then be more our collective fault than any small...minute group of sixty? Right?

...eeerrrrrr???? Lazie, yuh wake up yet...walk toward the plate, yet? (rueful smile)

A company that has mediocre employees needs the best Management possible to make the tough decisions regardless if the employees have shareholder votes...

The evidence at hand indicates the JLP are better managers than the PNP.

Mayor Mckenzie is a far better manager than Atkins.. why is this ?

Maybe the culture of the PNP does not allow good managers.. who knows.. and who cares..

It is only convenient for you Karl to be spouting "it nuh matter which P inna power' because currently YOUR P is in power.

Don't be a hypocrite Karl.

It always matters what P is in power. 1972 - 1980, 1980-89 and 1989-2007 is CLEAR evidence of this.

Keep bringing it up Karl yet you seem to ignore it.. when a Stream is dirty yuh haffi start cleaning at the Head. Filter is clogged beyond recognition after 18 years of 'progress'.. Filter change long overdue.

[Karl]

You always claim I say the JLP is always great or some bull like that. Point where I've ever said that. The REALITY is ... who manage the country better? If you want the stats ... ask. Then again ... FA-GET it ...Nuh you same one say "the figures may well be true, but no black dog fi monkey fi me!" Then you want to talk to me about reality?

I deal with the facts ... not anancy stories by you and other unthinking people. Pity ... too many Jamaicans are like you!

Yes, I have noticed your insertions of facts (one great big blank) on occurances during the reigns of both parties. ...but, I hold out hope for your coming awake one day and walking to the plate.
Walk good, boss!

[Mosiah]

It's clear as day, Lazie. You don't have to say a word.

[Muadib]

The government? Running the JPS into the ground?
Exactly as the JOS was run into the ground?
...and, the sugar companies?
....and, Air Jamaica?
...and, all our state run entities?


The truth shall set us free!
It is our people who go to work everyday and do a poor job that run our state institutions and state entities into the ground.

How many of our former good private sector companies have bitten the dust and or have never fulfilled their potential? Is it the government of the day that ran them and is running them into the ground? ...or, is it our people? Yes, I am asking - 'those people'/we who go to work everyday?

I beg you look around? Look around at what is happening in public and private sector...in small and large commercial entities, sporting organisations...every sector of our life. Why is there the common 'running into the ground' and or 'not living up to true potential' of so many of these entities? You really thing it is 'government'? ...or, is it not staring us into the face that it is US?! ...yes, a wi a run di tink dem innah di grun...but, it is easy to point to the faceless...'di government' or whichsoever "P" holds office.

Merely switching from one 'P' to another 'P' has never solved our problems...in fact, under each successive 'P' the manitude of the problems have grown! Successive governments have instituted 'nice sounding programs'...but, the reality of the 'nice sounds' with delivery of that which was noised abroad has been humongous.

Yes boss, painful as it is to look right back at the face in the mirror - A fi wi fault!

Let every one at work (at whatever, each one does) produce near maximum capacity and sixty (60) persons preening in Jamaica's Parliament would be regaling us at every turn with 'look at the wonderful job we are doing'. It is never the MPs! It is always the people! MPs pale both in numbers and ability to wield influence when compared with 'we the people'!

Who decides the size, makeup and funding of State institutions ?

Who heavily impacts the ability of Private Sector companies to access captial, the cost of captial, the tax burden and degree of red-tape operating a business in Jamaica ?

Who makes policy ?

What di *&(^# wi put Ministers in place fah ? Fi decide seh is 'di people' fault ? Who is 'di people' ? Dis sound like a side step approach to avoid accountability.. Seriously Karl.. how much dem a pay yuh ? Yuh deserve a big position up in deh !!

[Lazie]

You always claim I say the JLP is always great or some bull like that. Point where I've ever said that. The REALITY is ... who manage the country better? If you want the stats ... ask. Then again ... FA-GET it ...Nuh you same one say "the figures may well be true, but no black dog fi monkey fi me!" Then you want to talk to me about reality?

I deal with the facts ... not anancy stories by you and other unthinking people. Pity ... too many Jamaicans are like you!

[Muadib]

Why is it Jamaica's have a problem with business entities ...and persons turning a healthy profit?

Is Mullings signaling that a JLP government will rescind any previous deal with the government and or quasi-government bodies they do like?

If so, we must just lump it?

I am confused now.. what is you ideology.. or does it shift depending on what the Cult has decided ?

First you complain bout big man step pon yuh toe in di 80's.. what happen ?

Yuh have on tough boots now ?

I hope is not di stance dat the Rich can only get Richer when yuh people in power....