Look what wi come to now...

[Exile]

I share your sentiments for a better Jamaica Willi. It is painfully obvious though that there is no POLITICAL solution to our mess. I think that Jamaicans - on ALL sides of the political fence are culpable for the decay of the society - the decline in values, the lack of nationalism and the new glorification of self. While government must bear responsibility for setting the tone for decency, moral responsibility and national development - it will never happen in a vaccuum, or rather in a society which has sucked the energy of those who choose to live by the letter (or spirit) of the law, to be fair, just, principled...Jamaica has just become a totally indisciplined society, corrupt at all levels and with failed leadership in most spheres of the society...the church, Judiciary, private sector...
Having said all that, we still live in hope - but there is no political Messiah to save us from ourselves - it's only us that have to do it.
Regrettably, only a major catostrophe or serious calamity seems to get us to perform at our best...and yet even then, we see the dark side still coming out...

[Mosiah]

Karl seh is di Portland people dem fi fix it.

[Mosiah]

Rockfort is owned by Carib Cement, the trinis, so it's not in a bad state, really. What is bad is the heap of dust being spewed by the factory, which means that going to Rockfort could actually kill yuh!

[Willi]

Cant be more horrible than in Jam, as Jam is sooo dependent on the US.

[Muadib]

You know you once asked me, if a country can ever become bankrupt? Perhaps, in another thread that question could be revisited.

Just a reminder - I answered as a practical matter - No!

...to get back to your point - Yes...terrible things are happening in the USA. ...and, as an aside - I wonder why Lazie is not saying anything on those problems you mentioned which may be considered even more horrible than Jamaica's?

...plus we also have an ass of a Federal Reserve Chairman....who thinks the current meltdown in the housing market is 'nothing' and requires no action on his part...

...then there is the debate in the Congress on what to do with the 12 - 20 million 'illegal' immigrants without a thought on activity in the economy that they drive -

...as an example, let us say there are only 12,000,000 - (Hell that number is as good as any as the US Governmenet through the Congress says it has not a clue) - in the workforce and they are all earning at the top of the poverty level as presently defined, $11,000.00 per annum...that would be a hell of a lot of money...and, what about the attendant persons they support within the US, business they purchase goods from e.g. housing industry, automobile industry...etc...

...even the funds spent to, as we are told, support them, if taken out of say the health services...would it affect employment in that sector and attendant sectors and or entities that 'live off' the health services sector? ...and, on and on, with their labour and or purchasing power removed from other sectors/areas...and the 'cottage industries' developed around providing welfare services for them???? ~ sigh ~ ...and, what of prices if the cheap labour they provide disappears?

Wouldn't it be great to hear comprehensive figures...?

...but, that is for another topic.

I like where you are going with this.. in fact I think I figured out a solution.

You living in American seek to highlight the ills that need to be corrected there and fight for fundamental changes.. through the electoral process if needs be.

We living in Jamaica will do the same.

Now, how is that a bad plan ?.

[Willi]

I was talking about potential.

However, other things need to be in place. Nuff man try to run into the storm and get blown away.

[Karl]

To my mind Bush eff up America.

Progress??? Look at the fundmentals of that economy. Look at the country's balance sheet. Look at the deterioration of civil rights there occasioned by the Patriot Acts.

You know you once asked me, if a country can ever become bankrupt? Perhaps, in another thread that question could be revisited.

Just a reminder - I answered as a practical matter - No!

...to get back to your point - Yes...terrible things are happening in the USA. ...and, as an aside - I wonder why Lazie is not saying anything on those problems you mentioned which may be considered even more horrible than Jamaica's?

...plus we also have an ass of a Federal Reserve Chairman....who thinks the current meltdown in the housing market is 'nothing' and requires no action on his part...

...then there is the debate in the Congress on what to do with the 12 - 20 million 'illegal' immigrants without a thought on activity in the economy that they drive -

...as an example, let us say there are only 12,000,000 - (Hell that number is as good as any as the US Governmenet through the Congress says it has not a clue) - in the workforce and they are all earning at the top of the poverty level as presently defined, $11,000.00 per annum...that would be a hell of a lot of money...and, what about the attendant persons they support within the US, business they purchase goods from e.g. housing industry, automobile industry...etc...

...even the funds spent to, as we are told, support them, if taken out of say the health services...would it affect employment in that sector and attendant sectors and or entities that 'live off' the health services sector? ...and, on and on, with their labour and or purchasing power removed from other sectors/areas...and the 'cottage industries' developed around providing welfare services for them???? ~ sigh ~ ...and, what of prices if the cheap labour they provide disappears?

Wouldn't it be great to hear comprehensive figures...?

...but, that is for another topic.

[Karl]

Since there is such abundant opportunity in Jam., why are U in America?

Come betta dan dat...

I thought you were - or the person who started the thread was - pointing out the many opportunities that existed?

My bad!

...still I am agreeing with that person that there were and still are many opportunities for the private sector to take the country towards first world status.

...and, on why I am in America physically - perhaps, for the same reason you are in Europe? Opportunities are also in abundance outside of Jamaica and we thought it best to do what we did...besides you may also agree that we should not put boundries about ourselves. The world is our playfield. It certainly points to a further in which for our children or children's children it shall be the Universe that shall be their playfield.

...and, do not for a moment believe that some 'firm roots' are not in Jamaica. In a real sense we (my family) have also not left.

What 60 MP? MP nuh have much power, its the Cabinet!

That is a yes and no!

The cabinet members are selected from...?

...and, they need the votes of 'rest' to get 'anything done' ...and, to hang on to power?

I agree its our fault, we keep these despots in Power

Sooo, you are agreeing that we have 'fallen down on the job'...not lived up to our responsibility? ...and however, you look at it we are responsible...it is our fault?!

Butch, him a bawl louder dan me!

Usually what one does when not in control of one's destiny...and or cannot manage one's own 'business'.

Have you ever known a period in Jamaica when the private sector is not decrying the actions of the government...while claiming the climate within which it is operating is 'unfriendly to business'?

I am over 60 years old and I have never seen that period where the private sector operatives have not been 'bawling'. Has lead me to think these private sector operatives are either 'playing fool fi ketch wise' or 'damn fools'. Neither a good situation for someone or group of persons to be in.

[Assasin]

Karl say him do real estate, him nuh see what interest rate, Bush war and the price of oil, along with sub prime lending do to real estate so imagine what a 25% interest rate, goverment bonds at 10% and paying back debt with 60% of the budget has done to Jamaica and couple that with devaluation of the $$$ from 5-1 to near 70-1 and the picture become clearer. Not to mention we have a trade deficit with almost every country we deal with and now our credit rating is dropping like fly. The only thing Omar was good at is selling bond, now it soon turn junk.

[Willi]

Since there is such abundant opportunity in Jam., why are U in America?

Come betta dan dat Karl.

What 60 MP? MP nuh have much power, its the Cabinet!

I agree its our fault, we keep these despots in Power


Butch, him a bawl louder dan me!

[Muadib]

OK!
Let's agree that the...you put a number on it...let's for argument sake claim the 60 persons who are our MPs are PNP persons and they have been 'in government' for 17 years...

...and, let's claim there are 10,000 entrepreneurs with the means to drive growth...they being the that great Jamaica private sector, what has prevented them from attempting to do more than they have done?

What has prevented those in levels below the MPs from doing good things within sectors, entities, departments and front offices?

I cannot accept that the 60 PNP persons are the cause of where we are today...they have no doubt not done as well as we would wish that they do...but, it defies logic that they could, as you all say, .

George Bush has not been power for 17 years...he is approaching 8 years but, could anyone claim that this country is not making rapid progress on many fronts?

Sure the entreprenuers in the US operate within the constraints of their governments regulations...so why not within the more relaxed constraints of the Jamaica government...you all claim even if there are laws on the boooks the PNP fail to have them implemented..so, again...why not within the more relaxed constraints that hold in Jamaica those wonderful opportunities are not being taken by our private sector so as to drive our economic development?

I am telling you I will not accept that this government is responsible for all the ills of Jamaica...a tremendous responsibility of 'we the people' is not being lived up to!

Sure vote in the JLP...but, as I have been saying from we started to have political debate on this site...looking at the situation from a starting point of 1944...where we are today is more our fault than any government - JLP and or PNP - that we have ever had.

Those we elect come from us...and they can only take us where we allow them to take us.

How is it a Butch and a few others could have the rapid growth he has had...under this same 17 year PNP rule? What has happened to the rest of us? Could we not make gains that would have had us (the collective rest of us) further along the path to first world standard of living? ...or at the very least long past where we currently are?

makes no

When you want an education on doing business in Jamaica let me know.. or you can continue to be misinformed..

"Jamaica is not a country that is friendly to investment..."

Philip Paulwell...

Check Phillip and ask him what he means by that.

[MdmeX]

I was watching a piece on travel channel about some secret spots in Ja.
They showed Bath in St.Thomas but them say you have to brave to go there as the roads leading there are bad and the place is not really developed.

They also talk about our local Boston Jerk and they said it is great but you have to brave and take a chance as none of the vendors they spoke with had a food license.

ah bwoy.

Sass - dem can't be serious. Years ago these vendors had to have a Food Handlers Permit & it was rigourously enforced during my time at the PC. & yeah the road leading to Bath is deplorable (was there in Dec. '06), but that is the state of much of the roadway in Jam.

[Willi]

To my mind Bush eff up America.

Progress??? Look at the fundmentals of that economy. Look at the country's balance sheet. Look at the deterioration of civil rights there occasioned by the Patriot Acts.

[Karl]

Exile,

explain to me how we have all these assets and still so ppor. How can anyone make excuses for a 18yr Govt that allowed all this to go to waste...yet still they mad to talk bout monsterous Harmony Cove plans.

We must have a death wish fi true.

I am soooo fed up.

UP you mighty people, throw off the shackles and DEMAND better. Let the politiacians feel the axe if they dont perform immediately. The nerve of asking for mandate when you hold the reins for a year and do next to nutten.
STEEEUUUPPS, I dont care who vex. None a dem naw gi mi nutten. I just want the best for Jamaica. I HOPE we deserve better.

OK!
Let's agree that the...you put a number on it...let's for argument sake claim the 60 persons who are our MPs are PNP persons and they have been 'in government' for 17 years...

...and, let's claim there are 10,000 entrepreneurs with the means to drive growth...they being the that great Jamaica private sector, what has prevented them from attempting to do more than they have done?

What has prevented those in levels below the MPs from doing good things within sectors, entities, departments and front offices?

I cannot accept that the 60 PNP persons are the cause of where we are today...they have no doubt not done as well as we would wish that they do...but, it defies logic that they could, as you all say,

destroy the country

.

George Bush has not been power for 17 years...he is approaching 8 years but, could anyone claim that this country is not making rapid progress on many fronts?

Sure the entreprenuers in the US operate within the constraints of their governments regulations...so why not within the more relaxed constraints of the Jamaica government...you all claim even if there are laws on the boooks the PNP fail to have them implemented..so, again...why not within the more relaxed constraints that hold in Jamaica those wonderful opportunities are not being taken by our private sector so as to drive our economic development?

I am telling you I will not accept that this government is responsible for all the ills of Jamaica...a tremendous responsibility of 'we the people' is not being lived up to!

Sure vote in the JLP...but, as I have been saying from we started to have political debate on this site...looking at the situation from a starting point of 1944...where we are today is more our fault than any government - JLP and or PNP - that we have ever had.

Those we elect come from us...and they can only take us where we allow them to take us.

How is it a Butch and a few others could have the rapid growth he has had...under this same 17 year PNP rule? What has happened to the rest of us? Could we not make gains that would have had us (the collective rest of us) further along the path to first world standard of living? ...or at the very least long past where we currently are?

Makes no sense to me to that Portland, for example, has been in the horrible state it has been in from 1944...and, the people who live and come out of Portland have no responsibility for its state. It is akin to saying my home being in the state it is, is all the government's fault??? Makes no sense! (shake head!)

[Willi]

Port Royal - some very good development plans are still sitting down gathering dust...seems the wrong people did the designs....as for Milk River - very familiar with the place and I still take my Mother there ocasionally who believes in it's healing properties - nothing has been done with the place for the last 25 years..if anything it has run into disrepair...the whole place needs refurbishing...
In fact, the whole area has suffered from rural degradation and mass migration - to Kingston I guess...
As a boy, I remember Alley, Milk River as strong rural communities producing the likes of Milli Small (My Boy Lollipop)...now all that is missing is the tumbleweed....

Exile,

explain to me how we have all these assets and still so ppor. How can anyone make excuses for a 18yr Govt that allowed all this to go to waste...yet still they mad to talk bout monsterous Harmony Cove plans.

We must have a death wish fi true.

I am soooo fed up.

UP you mighty people, throw off the shackles and DEMAND better. Let the politiacians feel the axe if they dont perform immediately. The nerve of asking for mandate when you hold the reins for a year and do next to nutten.
STEEEUUUPPS, I dont care who vex. None a dem naw gi mi nutten. I just want the best for Jamaica. I HOPE we deserve better.