Raising the bar - part II

[Karl]

Quote:
An unsuccessful first season at Preston North End is hardly the arbiter of a player's ability imho

Above quote as per Don1, this may be true, but when you are selecting a side whether for national duty or for the possibility of improving your club then nobody cares about the possibilities of a particular players worth except his family and fans, the only thing they see is a Jamaican capped player failing at a 3rd div club, you know what conclusion they draw from that!?

The real truth is he probably should never have been selected for national duty but that is the state of our game, our best players are third div quality aT best 2nd div and you know what, that has pretty much been borne out by most of our players (national) that have played there fuller and gardener being the exception.

Agreed! ...with the cautious statement ...if our best is 3rd division then what choice have we?

Seriously...I understand.

[Stonigut]

Quote:
An unsuccessful first season at Preston North End is hardly the arbiter of a player's ability imho

Above quote as per Don1, this may be true, but when you are selecting a side whether for national duty or for the possibility of improving your club then nobody cares about the possibilities of a particular players worth except his family and fans, the only thing they see is a Jamaican capped player failing at a 3rd div club, you know what conclusion they draw from that!?

The real truth is he probably should never have been selected for national duty but that is the state of our game, our best players are third div quality aT best 2nd div and you know what, that has pretty much been borne out by most of our players (national) that have played there fuller and gardener being the exception.

[Karl]

Your claims are circumstantial. You have not seen even one game and you are merely aware the player is not to be retained. That appears to be the sum total of your info. That is an entirely insufficient base on which to make defensible claims.. I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong ... but that it is unsupported & speculative.

mmmm?

An unsuccessful first season at Preston North End is hardly the arbiter of a player's ability imho

..but it certainly gives info on the particular moment in time! ...i.e. conclusions arrived at after that 1st year. Right?

One needs to drill down deeper than that sketch of yours and acquire more info before being as definitive as you are. There could be issues of his style not fitting into that 3rd rate kick and run team, personal/petty issues, indiscipline, injury, non-acclimation to the environment..a myriad of issues

If one..even one of those issues you mentioned rates the player not wanted it equates - Not Good Enough! i.e. His ability was not such to cause mitigation in his favour = Not Good Enough!

The excuses thing does not cut it!

Before you ascribe multiple & speculative negatives to a young, inexperienced player going into his first professional environment and not being a success in Year 1..perhaps you may wish to consider informing the commentary with facts surrounding his experiences at that club

...anyway you look at it he just is Not Good Enough to 'force' PNE to retain him!!!

It is simple really - We need players who by preformance DEMAND SELECTION! The only 'out' would he is so good PNE wants *'good' transfer fee for him.

*'good' = It makes business sense to 'sell him on' at a profit ('fat profit')! That of course is the opposite of it makes 'good' sense to off-load him because the player's quality is less than that needed in team!!!

[Muadib]

wheh mi neba si at dem level is a man a defendah drap pon him bottom from a standing still position and nuh touch di ball..

Columbian defendah nuh play innah 4th Division...

Dat yuh call World Class fear innah man heart !

[Don1]

I think we have heard that from some quarters... ah no... from the penny section giving their 2 cents

All now mi cyaan figget wen im back to di goal line 2 yards away and Brazilians in front and to one next side...den im juss dribble all di way cross di goal mout to ******** like is one park im ah stroll inna...den find di open man wid one likkle pass

Mi neva si nuhbaddy duh dat yet pon dem lebel deh

Die Hearted Genius mi seh

[Stonigut]

Actually don1 you are kind of right, I am jumping the gun, but I am ok with that. As a manager, looking at this youth record, maybe I would try him if I were a manager of a 4th division team, but 3rd or below, I am wasting my time, there are plenty better young prospects to look at before I would look his way, that is just the truth.

I am not completely writing him off, but I am saying that if I were Tappa, I would not look his way again until he fought his way back into a strong role in a championship team, that is all, and now he is a far way from that.

When I hire someone I want someone who can hit the ground and run hard, I want a leader, I demand a leader even if he is not in a leadership role, if my average guy has no initiative and fight and can't hold down even hs basic space as a contributor, me Nuh have no time if dat!

[Stonigut]

Truth is Karl, you are probably right, but the way those guys play is like they are walking on clouds, they are in a different realm, so in my mind the need for strength in the classic English meaning of it seems outdated, Victorian Even!

[Karl]

Somehow the english game has evolved around more strength and speed, in their game at the early levels and on up, that combination is giving an advantage in obtaining results at home at a club level, however when you put it up against the Italians, brazilians, Spanish, argentines it comes up lacking as these teams skill level is superior both from a player and team perspective and they have speed and pace if not strength.

The way the Spanish play, strength probably won't even critically come into the equation, is like them playing another game. The English focus on the speed of play, this is not a sufficient advantage against the best sides.

I think Jamaica can advance to the next level quickly with more focus on speed at all positions and ball control however that will hit a ceiling at some point like the English have hit over the past45 years, dare I say that the closest we have seen to a Truly skilled English player in the last 30 years was probably paul gascoigne.

Only issue I have with you - All the top tier players and TEAMS are physically strong! I know...I know it is a matter of degree...but was as example Cesc Fabregas strong enough? ..was enough Spain of the last Euros and World Cup strong?

btw - As to relative ability (our locals vs the top tier international players and indeed TEAMs) - I was on the line in a match where a "Jamaica team" played a Brazilian team (Sao Paulo) in 'The Office' (the National Stadium was not then called The Office) when a Brazilian player (center-back Oscar) who was recognised as a 'slow player' ran down and then motored away from a player on that "Jamaica team" (who shall remain nameless - team could have been a Santos select???) who was possible our fastest player/certainly a player in the top layer of our then fast players!!!

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos...Oscar_Bernardi

[Muadib]

next ting yuh gwine hear is Tappa ah nuh World Class cause him nevah get kontrac innah 'Top Leagues'

[Karl]

Another example of what we Jakans see as a top rated youth that just somehow struggle at this next level another example of some skill at average speed, everybody have that from championship up so there is no advantage there, and if the youth is not a super hard worker, team player and cyan box Shyte out of hog mouth kind of youth, then it may be a slow spiral into back to the NPL. I man truly sorry to say that but we not sending these youths with any real sense of what is required to make it in pro ball if your combination of assets turn out to be average or below average.

It sure is hard to get our Massive/ReggaeBoyz fanz/JFF/entire Jamaica local technical 'experts' to understand the extreme importance of TEAM and SPEED=reaction time (mind and body...physical ability to react quickly and cover ground) and how that must be welded to superb technical ability.

Keamar Daley has the technical ability!
The speed and TEAM orientation ...obviously not good enough for Preston North End a 3rd tier team in a 3rd tier division! Fact: PNE has decided he is no good for them (3rd tier division/3rd tier team).

I have found in past conversations with NPL teams ' administrators the way their bruised egos are assuaged has them thinking along the lines of - "There are many other reasons PNE does not want him. E.g. Maybe the have an overload of midfielders...? Maybe it is the wrong manager...? etc., etc?"

It as never - Maybe he is just not as good as we thought? Maybe our ability to groom players is flawed? Maybe we need to look within?

There is always this refuge in - It is the stupid professionals at those professional clubs who cannot recognise 'great talent'. No sah, JAMAICA FOOTBALL technical experts know it (know it all)!!! The player on trial is a product/player who as offered is "OFFER THAT CANNOT BE REFUSED. QUALITY IS GREAT!"

Talk about head in the sand

[Don1]

Your claims are circumstantial. You have not seen even one game and you are merely aware the player is not to be retained. That appears to be the sum total of your info. That is an entirely insufficient base on which to make defensible claims.. I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong ... but that it is unsupported & speculative.
An unsuccessful first season at Preston North End is hardly the arbiter of a player's ability imho

One needs to drill down deeper than that sketch of yours and acquire more info before being as definitive as you are. There could be issues of his style not fitting into that 3rd rate kick and run team, personal/petty issues, indiscipline, injury, non-acclimation to the environment..a myriad of issues

Before you ascribe multiple & speculative negatives to a young, inexperienced player going into his first professional environment and not being a success in Year 1..perhaps you may wish to consider informing the commentary with facts surrounding his experiences at that club

[Stonigut]

Very specific opinions on a specific case

So surely you watched Keammar's games for that club?

Yes you are right I have not seen one game, however I don't need to see one game to tell me that an ELO side doesn't value him and he can barely keep his place on the reserves.

This is a youth who at his very best had a 50 percent goal strike rate in the Ksafa super league, next best was a 40 percent strike rate in the npl in 2010 season, actually for an ELO side that might be great target, someone took a shot and basically whiffed, as he has not made an impact in a third div side, what more is there to say than that.

It Nuh matter how pretty you turn and move, job number one is impressing your coach, your teammates, your management that u are the man for the team and you are a warrior who will do all things necessary to lead the club to wins, that is the job, that is it!

Just like when I take any new job, my first task is to ensure that I am bringing back at least double my cost in new revenue or value for my team, that is the bottom line equation, no matter who I like or did not like, no matter how it cold or me did feel sick or whatever, that is the first job, we coddle many of our star ballers they are not warriors in that sense, ready to sacrifice all for the unit! I am talking mental not physical strength here.

So yes, can't hold down the spot in an ELO side reserves that is a problem, for a player that has national team aspirations.

[Don1]

Very specific opinions on a specific case

So surely you watched Keammar's games for that club?

[Stonigut]

Somehow the english game has evolved around more strength and speed, in their game at the early levels and on up, that combination is giving an advantage in obtaining results at home at a club level, however when you put it up against the Italians, brazilians, Spanish, argentines it comes up lacking as these teams skill level is superior both from a player and team perspective and they have speed and pace if not strength.

The way the Spanish play, strength probably won't even critically come into the equation, is like them playing another game. The English focus on the speed of play, this is not a sufficient advantage against the best sides.

I think Jamaica can advance to the next level quickly with more focus on speed at all positions and ball control however that will hit a ceiling at some point like the English have hit over the past45 years, dare I say that the closest we have seen to a Truly skilled English player in the last 30 years was probably paul gascoigne.

[myYout]

di side ah kick an run dung side, but unfortunately wi did haffi tek a chance an hope seh him ability change how dem use him. But as a man seh, kick an run dung side an jus dat. An nuh him alone dem put pan transfer ah nuff ah dem. In life wi haffi mek mistake fi learn, an di yout wi learn from dis, huh need fi dis di ting.