Raising the bar - part II

[Don1]

What say you, Don1?
Does the below give credence to Stonigut's position?



If you have been following the evolution of the game, even if your attention has been from the relative short years since the creation of this 'board'/web site, you will have seen that the physical demands of the game have increased dramatically. It is not a stretch to underline that the present game (at high levels) demand qickness of thought, excellent reaction time, speedy players who can 'run all days' and absorb the physical battering that contact at high speed from these present stronger players.

A review of the all World Cups, European league finals (and matches between Europe's top teams) show mentally and physically 'draining' matches.

What has the article said about preparedness of our players to play at the highest levels?

...and secondly, do you for one minute buy the subliminal message/ the suggestion in that article that the players are better suited to play in the high quality leagues of Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy and France?

...or/and that our local players are of top world quality?

Just asking!

Inneresting Karl...juss ah penni dis

[Karl]

di side ah kick an run dung side, but unfortunately wi did haffi tek a chance an hope seh him ability change how dem use him. But as a man seh, kick an run dung side an jus dat. An nuh him alone dem put pan transfer ah nuff ah dem. In life wi haffi mek mistake fi learn, an di yout wi learn from dis, huh need fi dis di ting.

Kick and run?

Matters not the professional league you can only become top rate if you can 'kick and run'.

You have to be able to sensibly kick (put the ball where best suited) and you must be fast with ability to 'run forever'. Those assets added to high level of technical skill and TEAM oriented play separates 'the men from the boys'.

...being inadequate in 'kick and run' does not cut it!

[Karl]

Your claims are circumstantial. You have not seen even one game and you are merely aware the player is not to be retained. That appears to be the sum total of your info. That is an entirely insufficient base on which to make defensible claims.. I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong ... but that it is unsupported & speculative.
An unsuccessful first season at Preston North End is hardly the arbiter of a player's ability imho

One needs to drill down deeper than that sketch of yours and acquire more info before being as definitive as you are. There could be issues of his style not fitting into that 3rd rate kick and run team, personal/petty issues, indiscipline, injury, non-acclimation to the environment..a myriad of issues

Before you ascribe multiple & speculative negatives to a young, inexperienced player going into his first professional environment and not being a success in Year 1..perhaps you may wish to consider informing the commentary with facts surrounding his experiences at that club

What say you, Don1?
Does the below give credence to Stonigut's position?

Physical style of English game thwarts J'cans — agents

BY SEAN A WILLIAMS Assistant Sport Editor
Sunday, May 20, 2012


TWO football agents, acting on behalf of Jamaican players, believe it will always be difficult for home-bred talent to fit into the physical regime of British game.

Jamaica-based Mosiah Marshall and the principal of Pro-Goals Sport, Romel Wallen, basically agree that the inclination of Jamaican players to hold onto the ball, flair, technical soundness and physical deficiency make it difficult to make a seamless transition into the rugged English leagues.

MARSHALL... the game over there is played at a fast pace and involves a lot of hard running






"I think it's the style of play... I think the game over there is played at a fast pace and involves a lot of hard running; a lot of physical qualities... especially at the lower level," said Marshall, who has helped many of his clients into Asia, and mainly in Vietnam's top league.

The Jamaican agent pointed to Reggae Boy Keammar Daley as an example of an outstanding talent failing to break into the first team of League One Preston North End, irrespective of being a fan favourite.

"I think somebody like Keammar Daley would do better at one of the top clubs like a Chelsea or an Arsenal as I think his style would be more suited to the styles of those clubs, than at a Championship level club," said Marshall.

While English Premier League top clubs have diversied their playing styles with the introduction of skilful overseas players and colourful foreign coaches, the lower divisions continue to embrace primitive approaches to the game.

"Maybe anywhere else in Europe somebody like a Keammar Daley would be readily received," Marshall added.

Wallen said players coming into the English game will have their set of challenges, but in the case of Daley "a little more time" could have brought him success.

"It is very difficult for most foreign players to adapt immediately to the pace of the UK game. He is a talented boy, so I'm sure with a little more time, he will get more first team opportunities," he told the Sunday Observer in response to emailed queries.

Wallen, who is based in London, said while some players struggle to adapt to the demands of the British game, many have have been successful.
"Of all overseas professional leagues featuring Jamaican players, the UK still boasts the most home-grown Jamaican players. So we have proven that home-grown Jamaican footballers can make the leap successfully," he noted.

The Jamaican-born agent said the success rates of Jamaican and other nationalities could be higher if there weren't so many factors working against them.

"I'm not sure that the number of successes far outweigh the failures. Given immigration and world rankings hurdles, England simply has not always been a plausible option for Jamaican players. And of the few who do get UK trials, the said issues have often proven the deal breaker," Wallen explained.

"I think other than the eligibility issues we discussed, from a footballing standpoint, we are tactically behind in our development, so players struggle with the increased pace of the professional leagues abroad," he went on.

Wallen notes that while many players come to the professional ring with raw, unbridled talent, that alone won't seal the deal.

"Football talent in Jamaica is abundant. However, there is a mental make-up that separates say a Ricardo Gardner from the scores of talented footballers that have emerged from schoolboy football. If you can find that mix of natural ability, personal drive and humility, that is the kind of player we get excited about," he stated.

Marshall suggested that while Britain remains largely unappreciative of talent and technical ability, there are many countries on continental Europe who would lap what Jamaica has to offer.

"The Dutch, Belgians and Germans have a greater appreciation for technical players, meaning someone like Keammar. But yes the competition is tough, but as agents or the clubs that represent these players, perhaps we need to do a better job in getting these players into these leagues," he said.
Jamaican-raised players who have recorded relative successes in the UK markets have been deemed to be mainly those with physical build, tough demeanor and runners, but there have been a few excpetions.

"Someone like Ricardo Fuller could be considered an exception as he's not really a physical player, but he has size. Some English teams do appreciate that kind of skill and he has had some measure of success. Even (Ricardo) 'Bibi' Gardner is very physical though he is a bit small," Marshall outlined.
Local-born players who have been able to nail down work in the UK leagues for spells are the towering Damion Stewart, Claude Davis, Ian Goodison, and the runners being Omar Daley and Jermaine Johnson.

Marshall, who has been in the business for four years, says it's a critical part of an agent's role to find the ideal situation that a player's assets can be best utilised.

"You must fit the player to the league, to the country, to the style of play and I have a very good feel for what they like in Vietnam for example... you can see the players that I sent there, most of them have a certain style," he noted.

Among those who have experienced football in Vietnam are Kavin Bryan, Devon Hodges, Andre Fagan and Errol Stevens.

Marshall said as agent it can be very difficult to sell the Jamaican product sometimes — reasons ranging from Jamaica's ranking in world football, stringent eligibility rules and the unprofessional behaviour of some players.
"We have to realise that Jamaica's football is not there yet, therefore it's a difficult sell... some players believe that as soon as they sign things are going to happen right away and it's not as easy as that.

"As a result, some start to get impatient and start to do things that are ill-advised, like employing other agents illegally and becoming a nuisance to the process and messing things up for themselves," Marshall concluded

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport...gents_11512086

Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport...#ixzz1vP5u2Hvl

If you have been following the evolution of the game, even if your attention has been from the relative short years since the creation of this 'board'/web site, you will have seen that the physical demands of the game have increased dramatically. It is not a stretch to underline that the present game (at high levels) demand qickness of thought, excellent reaction time, speedy players who can 'run all days' and absorb the physical battering that contact at high speed from these present stronger players.

A review of the all World Cups, European league finals (and matches between Europe's top teams) show mentally and physically 'draining' matches.

What has the article said about preparedness of our players to play at the highest levels?

...and secondly, do you for one minute buy the subliminal message/ the suggestion in that article that the players are better suited to play in the high quality leagues of Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy and France?

...or/and that our local players are of top world quality?

Just asking!

[Dunny]

Now wi talking, the youth dem need some descent pitches to play on though!

[Assasin]

thank you sir. A that mi a tell them too. This is a decent start that if conintued will improve the level of football in Ja.

[Stonigut]

Nicely done!

[Stonigut]

We actually looking for best 30 then we figure best 22 then we take it from the on the chemistry side. Agreed!

[Don1]

The 'Best 11' is not always the same as the 'Eleven Best'

AKA...The team is greater than the sum of its parts

Case in point...we have significantly better players now than in '98 (ok Tappa aside) certainly most now play for better clubs than then ... but the '98 team was a compact, cohesive & effective unit... superior to this aggregation

[Don1]

This is a modification (or perhaps a clarification ) of your original argument

No worries here

[Don1]

=Karl;356995]So which comes first - selection or being in the Jamaica Jersey?

What comes first is a level playing field process of selection....not artificial player ranking by club type upon which to determine or even significantly influence game selection

What exactly has 'using foreign players en masse' to do with creating and implementing of quality player development at home ?

Foreign player availability (those foreigners who only have an opportunistic connection with Jamaica) has been used by Jamaica as a crutch...and enabled the delay of local player development systems (an expensive & involved assignment) because there is little perceived "downside" attached to not developing players locally.... because that foreign pool can be fished at will.

...and that is as a result of not understanding exactly what you are accusing Stonigut of...

Are you saying he is misguided to suggest using our best based on a selection process that rates possible squad members as per his suggested system of 'ratings'?

I'm saying his pre-determined hierarchy for player selection is backward, divisive and won't fly

...or...that the recruitment of 'foreigners' will surely lead to continued absence of a viable local development program?

That has been our history...until the paradigm is broken it will continue

[Muadib]

The 'Best 11' is not always the same as the 'Eleven Best'

[Stonigut]

I think we may be pretty close to the same place but as with every yard team I have ever played with we are champions at arguing over minute distinctions.

I am definitely not pushing short term over long term homegrown development but I am a realist and the truth is we have a long was to go on developing a real strong domestic program that will result in a consistently strong national team at alll levels.

Thus due to that inadequacy we must resort to the short term strategy which as you said seems to be the long term strategy since mid nineties. All I would like to see is a systematic way of calling up players based on performance, so if Tuffy Anderson scored say twenty plus goals out of 35 matches in the Npl with a few assists and truly shows the hunger to want to improve his game he should get a shot at say a Jamaica vs Guyana game, just want to see more structure in the selection process so the man them understand what must be done to get a call up. When I see players like Henry, Ronaldo, eto'o, van persie having seasons where they can score close to a goal per game not to mention assists on top of that at the very highest levels of ball and not one of our guys can come close to that kind of production at any level it says to me that we have a long way to go on the domestic front to producing true world quality ballers.


Now when guys get called for national duty retaining them on the national squad is always based on the performance at that level. The club creds only come into play to get them into the door of trying out and getting a chance to express their desire at the national level. That is it pretty simple stuff.

[Karl]

Just briefly scanned this tiresome epistle...but I gather you're still Drinking From Babylon's Poisoned Chalice...or you completely misunderstand my point.

1. A player's status should not assure favoritism in selection...only performance in the Jamaican jersey

So which comes first - selection or being in the Jamaica Jersey?

2. The short term solution we have leaned on i.e. getting foreigners to play for us en masse is a losing strategy which allows us to indefinitely delay the heavy lifting of quality player development at home

What exactly has 'using foreign players en masse' to do with creating and implementing of quality player development at home ?

In fact what is called short term is a misnomer... we're in the 16th year of that "short term strategy" of English journeyman importation... and still after more than a century of ball with no credible player development system on the horizon

Agreed!

Your understandable but misguided views would merely codify the folly and prolong the agony

...and that is as a result of not understanding exactly what you are accusing Stonigut of...

Are you saying he is misguided to suggest using our best based on a selection process that rates possible squad members as per his suggested system of 'ratings'?

...or...that the recruitment of 'foreigners' will surely lead to continued absence of a viable local development program?

...or...

[Don1]

Sorry to cut in.. but.. would Tappa make your side ?

or would he be penalized for only reaching as far as D4 in hingland.. suh if you find a UB40 midfielder playing in the Championship (D2) him automatically get select over Tappa... ??

Therein lies the folly of his profoundly conflicted argument

[Don1]

Just briefly scanned this tiresome epistle...but I gather you're still Drinking From Babylon's Poisoned Chalice...or you completely misunderstand my point.

1. A player's status should not assure favoritism in selection...only performance in the Jamaican jersey

2. The short term solution we have leaned on i.e. getting foreigners to play for us en masse is a losing strategy which allows us to indefinitely delay the heavy lifting of quality player development at home

In fact what is called short term is a misnomer... we're in the 16th year of that "short term strategy" of English journeyman importation... and still with no credible player development system on the horizon

Your understandable but misguided views would merely codify the folly and prolong the agony