Karl: Academy vs. Schools

[Sir X]

Xactly ,there isnt ,out of our natural love of T&F we developed a system out of ingenuity,determinatioin and love to pursue knowledge (certification) to dominate the world. We have to disagree , i believe we can get alot more out of that simple certification issue.If we take the same passion of knowledge to football it can be done,granted i hear you,many differences, but potential for many similarities.

[Jawge]

T&F is not a team sport it's an idividual sport. If football was structured in the manner of T&F Tappa would have brought JA to the semis in 98.

Did you know that all the top players in the world spent a min of eight hours on the field to learn and master the game (at youth level)? Now where does that leave Ja to teach the game (in high schools); in order to compete at the INT'L level?

[Sir X]

As gamma say , lets agree to disagree.All those mitigating factors are common knowledge,the issue is certification.

[Sir X]

Boss all mi affi fi say is , where is the meeting of the stakeholders, all Burrell affi say is lets all have a meeting, not even dat, all i keep hearing is wi Bruk, as mi brethren Brick point out Ivory coast rich ?

I agree wid yuh.

[Karl]

So it was a course covered over 5 days? Right?

The point was really that Academies are more likely to do the required coaching education than schools, where even though the educators may be professional educators, they are not football-specific-educators, especially for the very young players below high school.

The questions came from US Soccer's National Youth License final exam. I just took the course. It was GRUELING. I went from 8AM to 7:30/8PM Th, Fr, and Sat; plus 4 hours on Wed and 8AM - 4PM on Sunday. Every night, on top of the tiredness, we had at least 2 hours homework. We studied every form of the game as it applies to kids U6 - U12. It was attended by A License coaches, former professionals, including 2 former Canadian national team players, club administrators, DOCs, Academy Directors and of course, ordinary coaches like me. While I was there, I asked myself "how would it be possible to get a high school coach in Jamaica through this?" and "I wonder if they have something like this in Jamaica?". If anyone knows the answer to these questions, please let me know and I will go attend to see how different they are.

Anyway - my point is that I don't think schools are the right environment for soccer development after having gone through this course and formally educated myself. It is just not practical. Sorry.

How would you rate the course on Methods - i.e. How to teach football well?
Use a 10 through 0 scoring with 10 being highest score and 0 being lowest?

Then give us a paragraph on 'the why' of your given score?
Thanks!

---------------

...on this site more than once I have given my take on these courses!

[Assasin]

so wha happen? you nuh take breaks?? Stick around a little man.

Good talk.

[Don1]

Boss all mi affi fi say is , where is the meeting of the stakeholders, all Burrell affi say is lets all have a meeting, not even dat, all i keep hearing is wi Bruk, as mi brethren Brick point out Ivory coast rich ?

I agree wid yuh.

absolutely correct. JA is so small...all the football stakeholders know each other and live within a few hours drive of each other. Yet they can't organize a development program

small minded island people

[Assasin]

"all the football stakeholders know each other and live within a few hours drive of each other."

Unnu a come to unnu sense now. LOL!!!

[Karl]

So academics would be taught at nights? Yes?

Jawge?
...a Jamaica yuh born?

Before I was born in 1945 academics was being taught at some schools at night! ...and while I was at school in the '60s academics was being done at night!

...and while I was in college in the '60s there were 'night schools'. ...

...when I left JA in 1990 there were still 'night schools'.

Jawge: I would think that in our JA, academics is still being done at nights!!!
...but what is the point! Isn't it about scheduling best for the students? You lost me!

[Paul Marin]

A couple more interesting questions:

Do you think Winnie could answer them correctly?

Do coaches at any level need to know the answers to be effective?

D1 - I am forced to give a long answer because there are many undertones to these questions.

If I had not gone through the course, I would have been on the same page with Mo. Overkill. However, the excellent part about the course was that they not only told us why these principles matter, THEY SHOWED US. It was not all purely academic.

Each day, we studied a different age group U6, U8, U10, U12. There was a lecture, an onfield demonstration where we were the kids, an assignment where we had to come up with our own lesson plans (done during lunch time), an afternoon special player development topic (e.g. youth fitness, injury prevention & care, etc.) then the field practical where we as candidates took actual kids in the age group through a training session.

These sessions started at 6PM and ended between 7:30PM/8PM. You were also given an assignment each day to hand in the next day which included a self assessment of your on field practical. The things they are looking for from us are proven methods of education - guided discovery (asking questions in a way where the kid learns), clear concise instruction, activities that are simple to complex, activities where the decision making is with the child (not the coach) and activities that are appropriate for the age group where the KIDS took ownership.

In a nutshell - the course is designed to make coaches realise that developing a football player has many facets - not just kicking the ball - that lead to them becoming a top notch player and that they have a method they believe will work. They credit America's rise in soccer to this method that they are continually refining. For example, they are discouraging selection of kids based on early athleticism.

They showed a picture of messi when he was 7 or 8 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/16476473 - navigate to the second photo) and speculated that he would have been written off by most American coaches as we tend to place too high a value on athleticism at too young an age. They want as many kids to stay in the game for as long as possible because they realise that kids develop at different rates.

So to answer your question directly. Winnie would probably not be able to answer those questions because the system that US Soccer is based on is presumably different that what he is trained in. Secondly, coaches do not need to know the answers to be effective. HOWEVER - the Americans are devising a systematic methodology to the development of their players. It is NOT random and it is focused on the LOWEST AGE GROUPS.

My reason for asking the question was only to highlight that I am unaware if Jamaica has any similar system that covers ALL facets of the development of a player. Maybe it does and if so, show it to me. I will take that course tomorrow if I can.

[Don1]

Come to unnu sense???

Yuteman mi dun analyze di JFF foolishness lang time an' outline a workable, COMPREHENSIVE DEVELOPMENT PLAN

Dat name sense

[Paul Marin]

Happy you took the course.
Make me happier by telling what next?

Context: Jamaica

Now are you really saying we could not find thousands of Jamaicans who could successfully take such a course?

[YOU CAN'T EVEN FIND THOUSANDS IN AMERICA!]

...and why would school-teachers find those courses too difficult?

[IT IS NOT A MATTER OF DIFFICULTY - LAWD, IF ME CAN TEK IT ANYONE CAN, IT IS A MATTER OF DEVELOPING THE COURSE CURRICULUM AND HAVING PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE CONTINUALLY REINFORCING IT. IT WON'T WORK IF YOU SHOW UP, TEACH IT, AND GO AWAY. SO IN THE CASE OF US SOCCER, EACH STATE ASSOCIATION IS TASKED WITH MAKING SURE THAT THE CLUBS ARE FOLLOWING THE CURRICULUM. IN FLORIDA, YOU CANNOT COACH IN THE STATE CUP UNLESS YOU HAVE A D LICENSE - PERIOD! THE D LICENSE CURRICULUM IS NOW EQUIVALENT TO WHAT THE A-LICENSE CURRICULUM USED TO BE 15 YEARS AGO. POINT IS - IT IS NOT STATIC.]

...and why could such soccer courses be not made available to teachers of physical education and also to college students?

[THERE IS NO REASON THEY COULDN'T BE - BUT ARE THEY? WHO HAS PUT THEM TOGETHER? WHO IS MANAGING THEM? WHO IS ASSESSING THE PERFORMANCE OF THESE COACHES?]

While courses for both current teachers of football and college students be introduced...it may just be, as it is on most changes on enhancing subject knowledge/introducing 'cutting edge knowledge', easier to train the teachers while in teachers' colleges and 'unleash' them in 'classrooms'? [THE PROBLEM IS MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT. SCHOOLS ARE NOT THE PROPER TRAINING ENVIRONMENT FOR THIS BECAUSE THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS SPECIALISED.

HOW MANY TEACHERS DO YOU THINK WOULD BE NEEDED TO IMPLEMENT US SOCCER'S DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM IN JUST ONE SCHOOL?
HOW MANY PRIMARY SCHOOLS IN JAMAICA HAVE A PROPER FIELD?
CLUBS HAVE THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT, WHETHER THEY ARE DOING IT RIGHT OR NOT IS A DIFFERENT STORY.

...say, 6 colleges x 30 students = 180 students being released into the society each year? ....followed/supplemented with continuing education courses - local and outside of the island/international & theoretical and practical i.e. sabbaticals at professional clubs?


It is not as difficult as you think, Paul. It just needs leaders with vision who can motivate *parties with vested interests to buy in!

[I THINK YOU ARE TOTALLY UNDERESTIMATING THE ORGANIZATIONAL ANIMAL THAT THIS REQUIRES. I AM NOT SAYING IT CAN'T BE DONE, BUT IT WILL BE AFTER WE ARE LONG DEAD AND GONE BEFORE ANY RESULTS WILL BE PRODUCED]

*JFF and its affiliates.
Is it widely recognized that the colleges, high schools, prep schools are also among the JFF affiliates? ...that the entire society has a vested interest in development of a vibrant football industry?

See above

[Paul Marin]

in schools are not football-specific taught?

Context: Jamaica
I have just come to the realization that what holds in our teachers colleges is not widely known.

- The average time spent at a teachers college on a specific sport/learning to gain subject knowledge and teaching - methods - ...I cannot accurately tell but I can say the college student who has such a subject as elective or option has classes running throughout a 2 year period.

More than ample time to gather the required subject knowledge and 'how to teach' same.

- The problems that prevent our footballers being developed on par with the top football nation has nothing to be with lack of player talent...but lack of sufficient quality teachers.

As fact, if my Mico class graduated 50 such in 1969...immediately on graduation 30 or so were not engaged in teaching the game and 90+% would never ever teach the game beyond 5 years.

The causes stemmed from:
- schools already had 'coaches' and the new graduates were not used in that area;

- the new graduates for one reason or another did not spend a day of teaching...private sector, immigration, etc.;

Usually within 5 years all would be away from teaching the game.

Conclusion: The principals met were never proactive on use of the new graduates in the area of sports and the number of graduates who remained in the profession were always few. (Look if it were not so...the numbers of graduates churned out by the colleges would have already created a graduate-teacher position jam...over-supply and consequent uproar).

Somehow the matter of having professional trained teachers of the game involved from the earliest of development of the kids must be given attention.

A simple self-test: Ask yourself when football was introduced to you at school were you given a formal lesson on the game?

Ask the most basic questions - Did you have a discussion with your teacher on "The easiest way to get by an opponent"?

How did you learn to kick a ball?
Are you sure you know the easiest way to pass a ball? Does it involve any particular position relative to the ball at the moment you strike same?

Did you practice passing into goal? ...with feet? ...with head? ...dead ball? ...ball rolled to you? ...the various directions and heights? ...ball rolling away from you? ...talked about keeping the ball on the ground? ...how to best accomplish that? (btw - Aside: Have you noticed that Sturridge often passes and the ball (too) often travels along a loop on the way to his teammate? Have you noticed that Sanchez often passes late...dwells on the ball too long...under hits or over hits or misdirects his passes? ...too often his shots/passes on goal goes slowly to goal when he tries for firmer passes?)

...did you have lessons on penalty-area markings and various positions along those marks relative to the goal? ...how such assists on 'blind passes' on goal?

Even the very, very young quickly grasps the concept of passing around opposing players using TEAM-mate! ...when and how did you learn and practice that 'keep way'?

Simple stuff...

Simple stuff you will notice our national teams fail at!!!! ...consistently fail at!!!

Karl - the world has moved way beyond what you and I did. The rest of the world is moving ahead with a successful formula that does NOT include the schools for a good reason...because it is better. You are stuck in a time warp and stuck to a principle which I think will be proven ineffective in the long run. You will be like the Japanese soldier marooned on the Pacific island still fighting the war in 1950! School football should be there, but it is not the place for development unless there is some RADICAL system that I am not aware of. I used to be on the fence on this one, but after going through this program and seeing what US Soccer is trying to do, I have changed my mind completely. Schools are not the answer, it is just not the right environment any more than a football academy would be the right place to teach chemistry.

[Don1]

D1 - I am forced to give a long answer because there are many undertones to these questions.

If I had not gone through the course, I would have been on the same page with Mo. Overkill. However, the excellent part about the course was that they not only told us why these principles matter, THEY SHOWED US. It was not all purely academic.

Each day, we studied a different age group U6, U8, U10, U12. There was a lecture, an onfield demonstration where we were the kids, an assignment where we had to come up with our own lesson plans (done during lunch time), an afternoon special player development topic (e.g. youth fitness, injury prevention & care, etc.) then the field practical where we as candidates took actual kids in the age group through a training session.

These sessions started at 6PM and ended between 7:30PM/8PM. You were also given an assignment each day to hand in the next day which included a self assessment of your on field practical. The things they are looking for from us are proven methods of education - guided discovery (asking questions in a way where the kid learns), clear concise instruction, activities that are simple to complex, activities where the decision making is with the child (not the coach) and activities that are appropriate for the age group where the KIDS took ownership.

In a nutshell - the course is designed to make coaches realise that developing a football player has many facets - not just kicking the ball - that lead to them becoming a top notch player and that they have a method they believe will work. They credit America's rise in soccer to this method that they are continually refining. For example, they are discouraging selection of kids based on early athleticism.

They showed a picture of messi when he was 7 or 8 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/16476473 - navigate to the second photo) and speculated that he would have been written off by most American coaches as we tend to place too high a value on athleticism at too young an age. They want as many kids to stay in the game for as long as possible because they realise that kids develop at different rates.

So to answer your question directly. Winnie would probably not be able to answer those questions because the system that US Soccer is based on is presumably different that what he is trained in. Secondly, coaches do not need to know the answers to be effective. HOWEVER - the Americans are devising a systematic methodology to the development of their players. It is NOT random and it is focused on the LOWEST AGE GROUPS.

My reason for asking the question was only to highlight that I am unaware if Jamaica has any similar system that covers ALL facets of the development of a player. Maybe it does and if so, show it to me. I will take that course tomorrow if I can.

PM ...thank you for this thoughtful response. It has given me a better understanding of this program. I can appreciate that it is appropriate for the environment in the United States.

If this coaching program for kids is a major component of the US youth development system... it's clearly a winner. Their teams are generally organized, cohesive and play to a plan...with the flexibility to adapt to different opponents. Their players may lack the native inspiration to be world class but that's a subject for another day.

As to JA I believe we have a unique environment and consequently our youth development must be specially designed to match our situation.... Learning from foreigners but pursuing only what's appropriate in their systems.

This is what we have done with track....design an absolutely unique development system. This results are of the highest world class for sprints at least.

I have proposed the elements of such a unique development system for JA football as I don't like yappin in a vacuum .

Given the right system, time & consistent execution... I believe JA can achieve great things in football. It's just another task to master imho. Mastery of football as you know is not magic... it's just achieved via patient, visionary leadership, an appropriate plan & diligent execution. Yes add a little money

Unfortunately none of those prerequisites is in place in JA.

C'est la vie

[Paul Marin]

How would you rate the course on Methods - i.e. How to teach football well? Use a 10 through 0 scoring with 10 being highest score and 0 being lowest? Then give us a paragraph on 'the why' of your given score? Thanks...on this site more than once I have given my take on these courses!

I would give the course a 8.5. The 1.5 they lost was because of organization of the materials and information overload. But it is all there, and we covered all of it. The benefits to the course are in the education received on HOW children learn best, the differences in methods that you have to use at each stage of development, and the WAY in which we have to coach. What they didn't cover was stuff like technique - proper pass, trapping, shooting, etc. and that's because they are of the belief that the activities and the methods they are extolling will bring those out naturally in the kids. I don't fully agree with them, but I understand their reasoning.